DRK Consolidated Feedback Thread

[Chrono_Rising]

I don't know where to post this but I would like to just point out something. I notice people telling us that our dps only matters in speed runs and if you are at the top 1%. While higher dps is important in those instances I would like to point out that this is not an issue which only effects that 1%.

Dark Knight dps, and thus one of the factors people consider when choosing a tank, is behind at all levels of play. This is not a 1% issue, your dps does matter, and while not as pronounced at lower percentiles, you can still expect to be behind paladin by 100 to 150 dps and behind warrior by 200 to 300 at most percentiles. Don't let people tell you it doesn't matter, because quite frankly it does. If I could find 200 dps on my dragoon (I should try jumping into less aoe) I would be doing everything in my power to find it.

I also notice people are commenting about warrior buffs, and pointing out the inconsistencies of the highest tank feeling it needs more damage. But I've noticed a steep decline in conversation in dark threads about buffs. We need to keep the conversation going as much as possible.

[SyzzleSpark]

I also notice people are commenting about warrior buffs, and pointing out the inconsistencies of the highest tank feeling it needs more damage. But I've noticed a steep decline in conversation in dark threads about buffs. We need to keep the conversation going as much as possible.

WF combined with Xeno's ridiculous interview (where he says that utility should be balanced by damage while in the same paragraph implying that WAR should deal more damage than DRK in spite of also having better utility) has encouraged a lot of gaslighting towards DRK's asking for buffs. I'm honestly not sure how to combat that, short of writing a literal scholastic essay covering every single aspect of balance between the tanks with DPS, mitigation, and utility gains/discrepancies fully and completely mathed out with statistics and parses to back the data up (which we have, but I guess no one person has time to compile it all).

When I saw the WAR buff threads pop up I was like really? Is this a thing that is actually happening right now? Did I slip into some extraplanar dimension of quantum inversion? Was the removal of half of your gauge costs and the addition of a free party shield not enough? To which they'd all say "well those were fixes to stuff that never should have been broken" implying that everything that is currently busted right now about DRK is exactly as it should be, which - I don't even know what to call that, other than an insult.

[jameseoakes]

When I saw the WAR buff threads pop up I was like really? Is this a thing that is actually happening right now? Did I slip into some extraplanar dimension of quantum inversion?

I think there will be a group of WAR players who won't be happy until WAR is again required in every party and that 3.0 was well balanced for the tank jobs

Also those end game play rates still look pretty bad, I had wondered if it's play rates where quite good in the dungeons and the like it might give SE the impression that it's still popular despite it's issues in high level content which might explain there slow response to the requests for buffs.

[Chrono_Rising]

snip

Agreed, both conversations are necessary, I just mean to say we cannot afford to let one conversation go (buffing dark knight) while pointing out that warrior has 3 full time buffs before even looking at berserk to augment its damage. The "argument" in the interview was very cherry picked as far as details.

I think it would be great to put up a full analysis of dark knight backed up with statistics.as its own post. Maybe people have ignored it in the past?

[Aana]

I also notice people are commenting about warrior buffs, and pointing out the inconsistencies of the highest tank feeling it needs more damage. But I've noticed a steep decline in conversation in dark threads about buffs. We need to keep the conversation going as much as possible.

More than half of the 1st 2 pages of tank threads are explicitly Drk change related as I type this. A couple of troll threads on war, and threads on the (BRAND NEW) ultimate results and the xeno interview. If 'tapering' interest means having the chance to read about anything besides drk fix threads on the board then I call that a win. 75% Drk threads for months on end changing to 50% is lovely. There is no possible way SE is not aware. Drk has been blacking out the boards for months. If they don't do anything its a conscious choice, not a lack of awareness. Blacking out the 3/4ths of the tank boards for another 2 months isn't going to say anything that hasn't been said in the last 3 months of obsessive coverage. I get the 'keep up the fight!" mentality, but SE is aware. There is no possible way they are sitting there like "Everyone thinks everything is fine!". They are just choosing not to talk back. They are either working quietly on the issue, or have consciously decided "there is no problem git gud".

Keep up the discussion, but not having every thread on the boards monopolized doesn't mean the movement is dying. It means people want to also talk about other things. There is more than broken drk goin on in the world.

[Chrono_Rising]

More than half of the 1st 2 pages of tank threads are explicitly Drk change related as I type this. A couple of troll threads on war, and threads on the (BRAND NEW) ultimate results and the xeno interview. If 'tapering' interest means having the chance to read about anything besides drk fix threads on the board then I call that a win. 75% Drk threads for months on end changing to 50% is lovely. There is no possible way SE is not aware. Drk has been blacking out the boards for months. If they don't do anything its a conscious choice, not a lack of awareness. Blacking out the 3/4ths of the tank boards for another 2 months isn't going to say anything that hasn't been said in the last 3 months of obsessive coverage. I get the 'keep up the fight!" mentality, but SE is aware. There is no possible way they are sitting there like "Everyone thinks everything is fine!". They are just choosing not to talk back. They are either working quietly on the issue, or have consciously decided "there is no problem git gud".

Keep up the discussion, but not having every thread on the boards monopolized doesn't mean the movement is dying. It means people want to also talk about other things. There is more than broken drk goin on in the world.

My comment means that conversations the past few days have tappered off in dark knight threads where we talk about what we need. Most efforts have been put towards combatting people who feel we don't. For someone who has always demanded proof, you have given us a statement which no one can support, the devs had said nothing. Until they do the assumption is they have not notice.

[Aana]

My comment means that conversations the past few days have tappered off in dark knight threads where we talk about what we need. Most efforts have been put towards combatting people who feel we don't. For someone who has always demanded proof, you have given us a statement which no one can support, teh devs had said nothign. Until they do the assumption is they did not notice.

It's a statement that is common sense logic.

Goal: Drk's want to make developers aware of their grievances and then take action based on them.
Method: Flood the official forums for months keeping 90% of the conversations centered around said grievances.

Possible outcomes after months of constant posting:
A: The devs (rather community managers who report info to devs) read the forums and thus are incapable of 'missing' such a prolonged deluge.
B: The devs (rather community managers who report info to devs) DO NOT read the forums and thus missed such a prolonged deluge.

The only 'assumption' made is that people whos job it is to read the forums somehow missed MONTHS of constant Drk spam all over the boards which I find highly improbable. Therefore:

If A is true, the ball is handily in SEs court. They have been silent. Based on the above they know about the grievances across JP and international boards. They will either act, or not act, but ignorance is no longer an option.

If B is true, then they are bad at their job, but beyond that, NO amount of posts will matter because they aren't reading them at all.

In all scenarios keeping virtually every discussion drk based wont help. The goal is no longer seeking attention. The only possible benefit of continued posts is presenting specific actionable ideas they may not have considered (assuming they have quietly decided to make changes in the 1st place). But just taking up real estate for the sake of garnering attention is completely unnecessary.