DRK Consolidated Feedback Thread

[NymeriaVelaris]

make TBN a significant DPS gain when used properly

I dont agree with this idea at all.

The Blackest Night is fine as it is. Currently the Bloodspiller you gain from it is (in terms of dps) worth exactly the same as an extra Dark Arts, this is intended and makes sense. (there is a very minimal potency difference outside of Grid, but its super small and doesnt matter at all in the end)

The reason for that is if every TBN proc would be a significant dps gain it would be a nightmare to maximize your dps. You would basically have to use TBN successfully every 15 seconds, even if there are only auto attacks for it to proc (which are already a bit of a hassle because of the small TBN window).
The skill ceiling of the class would go through the roof.
Some people would probably even start to take unnecessary damage just to get an extra TBN proc for more personal DPS.

In the end it would make your DPS dependend on the outgoing damage of the encounter, which is not a good thing.

If you do content outside of current savage raid tier or your item level rises, your TBN shield might not get broken anymore. Or imagine you do 24 raids, you are not tanking, the MT is in another party and you cant use TBN on him.
DRK would do less damage overall, since if they would make the change some other skills will have to be nerfed to make it even.

The reward for using TBN successfully is the mitigation you gain from it without any dps loss. This is also on a very short cooldown and usable outside of tank stance.
TBN is already a powerful and rewarding tool.

I do understand if you wish for more depth for the class in terms of dpsing, but your suggestion is not the right way to do it imo.

[SyzzleSpark]

The Blackest Night is fine as it is. Currently the Bloodspiller you gain from it is (in terms of dps)worth exactly the same as an extra Dark Arts, this is intended and makes sense.

Your PPGCD actually falls more often than not when you do this, the math on this is all over the place.

No one is saying it isn't powerful, or that the active playstyle it enables isn't rewarding. But the resource conversion is imbalanced. It was balanced, briefly, between 4.01 and 4.05, and then it was back to being a small loss.

As you point out, its a hassle to use on AAs, which is where it gets used quite often because it is frequently the only form of mitigation during those periods since DRK lacks any other form of high uptime mitigation that isn't better served being used against burst damage/TBs. This is the whole reason why it should be an actual gain, instead of a loss, because if you want mitigation you can and will be using it frequently against AAs, where it may or may not pay off - so its price/payoff ratio could be adjusted. It totally is not the same as an "extra Dark Arts". 50 Blood does not equal 2400 mana in potency.

If you don't believe me, just take a gander at flogs; in optimized runs with a DRK in the party, said DRKs are typically using TBN less than 10 times in as many minutes. I've seen some 9-10 minute encounters with only 5-6 casts of TBN. Basically if you're looking to optimize you actually wanna use it as little as possible - this is something that I think is silly and ought to be fixed. Its part of our core cooldown suite, it isn't some bonus extra safety net for prog or screw-ups like IB or Clemency. Saying you gain mitigation from it without a DPS loss is misinformation.

[NymeriaVelaris]

If you don't believe me, just take a gander at flogs; in optimized runs with a DRK in the party, said DRKs are typically using TBN less than 10 times in as many minutes. I've seen some 9-10 minute encounters with only 5-6 casts of TBN. Basically if you're looking to optimize you actually wanna use it as little as possible - this is something that I think is silly and ought to be fixed. Its part of our core cooldown suite, it isn't some bonus extra safety net for prog or screw-ups like IB or Clemency. Saying you gain mitigation from it without a DPS loss is misinformation.

As it was already said, its a minimal dps loss/gain (low single digit potency differences), not worth talking about. Its the closest thing the devs managed to create. I think its unnecessary to make a fuss about it at this point.
There is no reason not to use TBN successfully as much as possible even while doing speedruns. In the contrary, it also helps healers dps.

The reason why people dont use TBN on cooldown/more often is that it can be risky on non-telegraphed attacks or autos. Also TBN is only 10% on your tank partner, which is nice but basically never needed if they have decent gear and planned out their own cooldowns, which is the case in optimized runs. Casting another DA for the same DPS gain is just easier.

There actually isn't a problem with having TBN being part of dps optimisation. Third Eye/Seigan on SAM can be used to give you minor resource gains if you use it correctly by predicting incoming damage, and that's on a dps job.

There is, as i have pointed out. Your comparison to Third Eye isnt quite fitting. Third Eye just needs the player to be hit by any damage to proc. It will work on any level on any content and since you are never tanking as SAM its very predictable to use, cause you dont deal with autos and you just need one hit. It also doesnt cost any recources. TBN on the other hand needs to break completely in 5 seconds to proc and has costs.

[SyzzleSpark]

I think its unnecessary to make a fuss about it at this point.

TBN is under scrutiny (at least currently, there's 40 pages behind us of discussion on other aspects of DRK as well) because its essentially a second DA, a whole other resource mechanic in and of itself, as well as a mitigation tool. I don't think its unreasonable to look at it more closely when trying to figure out ways to fix DRK's problems (meh DPS ceiling, lopsided mitigation, tons of cost/return resource mechanics that don't really reward you that much for mastering them, etc.)

Feel free to offer some alternative suggestions.