DRK Consolidated Feedback Thread

[SyzzleSpark]

Everywhere I've seen pretty much everyone thinks DRK is the best MT/OT... I'm over here thinking War & DRK still need buffS to be on plds level. Even then when people say "yeah they literally the best" I ask them how, all I get is "they have TBN"

Because we have one utility we are now an amazeball tank the likes that has never been seen?
I honestly don't get it, is it because Warrior doesn't have Utility? I honestly don't get it, and I've played this job through every raid and every piece of content. What do we have that Warriors don't other than TBN!?!

I have no idea who you're hanging out with but DRK is not the best at anything right now other than perhaps pulling the boss. So maybe you could say they're the best MT for the first 20-30s of a fight, but best OT? Where did you read that, Erowid? What cocktail of drugs is required to come to that conclusion?

TBN is not utility. If it saves the current MT, all it means is that they mucked up their CD rotation. If they survive with appreciably more than 5K HP, TBN was not necessary. Moreover, it does not mitigate enough damage to actually replace anything in your co-tank's cooldown rotation. Tankbusters are dealing upwards of 70-80K right now. A 5K shield is peanuts, and I would argue that it is not any more valuable than WAR's slashing debuff, except that the latter can actually be of value depending on your group composition.

[Kalocin]

I have no idea who you're hanging out with but DRK is not the best at anything right now other than perhaps pulling the boss. So maybe you could say they're the best MT for the first 20-30s of a fight, but best OT? Where did you read that, Erowid? What cocktail of drugs is required to come to that conclusion?

You'd be surprised what's on Reddit and off forums as there's a general mindset that DRK is basically the same from 3.0 with people saying things like we get mana back from blood price still. Anytime I see posts regarding tank balance, there's always some DRKs in there trying to tell em how it is but usually not as prominent as warriors or paladins talking. There's no downvote system here so luckily it's less of a hive mind.

Most recent that comes to mind (I couldn't find it unfortunately), right after OS4 was cleared, someone took a fight scene in an anime throwing in all their skills in the video that more or less implied that Dark Knight was OP and better than all others. A lot of people thought it was funny and true while a lot of Dark Knights posting were like "Yeah I wish", but most just assuming that's how it was.

There was another one too saying the TBN has made off-tanking fun, same kind of mindset there too. (With most of the negativity being that pre-lvl 70 is boring without TBN).

Gist version: Lots of ignorance regarding the job from those who do not play it or a tank in general.

[Deathshiro]

Gist version: Lots of ignorance regarding the job from those who do not play it or a tank in general.

@Syzzle Trust me, I more than a good few know the garbage spot we are in. Ever since O4s/V4s was cleared with a DRK for world first everyone somehow though "DRK IS FINE WAR IS GARBAGE LOLOLOLOLOL" since players at a higher level of play than 99.9% of the population cleared it first with this certain comp

I'm pretty sure DRK was only brought for the approx 5k shield on the other tank because world first. That and most people in the race geared PLD/DRK because warrior was bad and no one knew for certain what changes they would get

Then people look at Warrior and go "WELL SHAKE IT OFF" yet people forget we have Dark Passenger, another useless ability. They also SOMEHOW(no clue how) believe that our mitigation suite is as good as PLD, and that warrior is lacking.

TL;DR - World first ruined majority of reddit mindset for class balance, as usual.

[Tint]

I'm pretty sure DRK was only brought for the approx 5k shield on the other tank because world first.

nobody cares for that 5k shield. except warriors who like to point out how awesome a 5k shield is... (do they even believe their own words?)

DRK was brought because he still has awesome magical mitigation and the tank busters in omega do magic damage. so DRK is actually the best maintank in omega.
the problem here is that you have design fights specifically in a way to suite DRKs magical mitigation - otherwise it's the worst tank out of the 3.

with the removal of Foresight and 20 seconds Reprisal our physical mitigation is lacking now and TBN alone can't make up for the loss. especially since TBN only works well for tanbusters, excatly like the new 5 seconds Reprisal. we have not much left for autos and stuff.

[Freyyy]

nobody cares for that 5k shield. except warriors who like to point out how awesome a 5k shield is... (do they even believe their own words?)

DRK was brought because he still has awesome magical mitigation and the tank busters in omega do magic damage. so DRK is actually the best maintank in omega.
the problem here is that you have design fights specifically in a way to suite DRKs magical mitigation - otherwise it's the worst tank out of the 3.

with the removal of Foresight and 20 seconds Reprisal our physical mitigation is lacking now and TBN alone can't make up for the loss. especially since TBN only works well for tanbusters, excatly like the new 5 seconds Reprisal. we have not much left for autos and stuff.

That's precisely why making DM reduce all damage instead of just magical would fix most of the mitigation issues for DRK without essentially being OP. As of right now, they are tuning the fights to make DM very good, by making bosses deal mostly magic damage (except V3S), just like in Gordias. Making DM reduce all damage would allow them to put more physical damage without negatively impacting DM's usefulness, and would bring us roughly to the same level as the other tanks in terms of self-mitigation. Not higher like some people tend to think. Look at V3S, the boss there deals mostly physical damage, magic damage being only raid-wide in this fight. DRK suddenly has a harder time properly mitigating damage as MT in this fight than the other tanks, while in O1S, O2S and O4S it's roughly equal to the other tanks.

The only reason why PLD are OTing right now is not because DRK has higher magic mitigation, it's because they can bring extra mitigation to the MT while OTing, and this mitigation would be unused most of the time if the PLD was MTing (Unlike TBN, Intervention cannot be used on self, so making PLD MT would be a waste, same for Cover, since now it gives 20% mitigation to the PLD on top of covering, it's just like tank-swapping + popping Rampart for 10sec, but without the tank-swapping part, which is amazingly strong). DRK and PLD are roughly equal in terms of magic mitigation, and I'd even say that WAR is too, since they got Rampart, and even before having Rampart, WAR was really good in both physical AND magical mitigation. DRK just falls behind a LOT when it comes to mitigating physical consistent damage, like autos and cleaves. TBN doesn't make up for the lack of something like Bulwark or Raw Intuition at all. And DM could fill this role if it wasn't magic-only.

[Tegernako]

nobody cares for that 5k shield. except warriors who like to point out how awesome a 5k shield is... (do they even believe their own words?)

I don't get this. If nobody cared then why so much use in savage? why not use WAR over DRK in savage?

Wouldn't the world's best min-maxers know best if it mattered or not?

seeing more use out of the blood gauge.

I would honestly rather see DRK generate BG faster.

having more impact when using dark arts.

I think it's fine.

regaining better forms of mitigation.

This times a million.

reintroducing some level of complexity to the class and how it is to be played, both for casual and hardcore players.

Yes.

and ostensibly, making the class more enjoyable for those to play it from 30 onwards.

Yes.

[SyzzleSpark]

I don't get this. If nobody cared then why so much use in savage? why not use WAR over DRK in savage?

Wouldn't the world's best min-maxers know best if it mattered or not?

A lot of people DO use WAR over DRK in savage. Most world first groups took DRK for insurance, and because its DPS rotation was easier and less punishing (at the time, now WAR is back to being fuck-all easy again if you know the fight even just a little bit). But nowadays, TBN isn't worth much. There's nothing it can mitigate that the MT isn't perfectly capable of mitigating with their own CDs, and 5K isn't enough to wholly replace a CD in their rotation. So no, TBN is not really utility:

The main problem that I have with the word "utility" in these discussions is that it's often used to describe things that often don't confer a benefit. I can shield a WAR with TBN on a tankbuster for 25% of my MP and a minor dps loss, but there's no point in doing so if they're more than capable of surviving on their own by having access to largest free mitigation suite in the game. It's fun, yes. If it's balanced as a dps gain (as it was in 4.01 for a whopping 4 potency per use), then it's just a personal dps gain, not utility.

[Freyyy]

lots of magic tankbusters in savage > DRK has a powerfull magic cooldown wich he can use once a minute, wich makes him the best maintank in savage.

That's just not true anymore. Dark Mind isn't as big as it used to be in 3.X, even on heavily-magical fights. Now PLD has better magic mitigation than DRK, and WAR has no issue with tank busters, magic damage or not. They can use Holmgang every 3min, and for the rest they have Vengeance and ToB on 2min CD only, Equilibrium on 60sec, and if needed, they can IB at almost any time since there is no penalty on switching stances anymore, while having access to the same cross-role actions as the other tanks (Rampart, Conv, Awareness for O3S, Reprisal). The only reason why DRK was taken over WAR for world prog is just what Syzzle said above :

A lot of people DO use WAR over DRK in savage. Most world first groups took DRK for insurance, and because its DPS rotation was easier and less punishing (at the time, now WAR is back to being fuck-all easy again if you know the fight even just a little bit).

That's all.

[Tint]

I don't get this. If nobody cared then why so much use in savage? why not use WAR over DRK in savage?

Wouldn't the world's best min-maxers know best if it mattered or not?

you should maaaaaybe read the rest of my post, where i explained why xD lots of magic tankbusters in savage > DRK has a powerfull magic cooldown wich he can use once a minute, wich makes him the best maintank in savage.

i mean that 5k shield is nice and all, but not the mandatory utility wich WAR like to see the DRK has. all that WARs see is that they have no utility at all, so they point at TBN and are telling us how powerfull it is. but hands down it's just a glorified stoneskin.