DRK Consolidated Feedback Thread

[Link594]

Saying it is completely useless is not saying it needs a buff. Unless you feel your only way to get a buff is through pointless and inaccurate exaggerations. Could it use a buff? Yeah, sure. Does it need one? No not really. It's far and away the lowest priority I'd say on Dark Knight changes. It has a number of viable uses, the only thing that has changed about it is that you can't just mindlessly push the button.

Do you not pull more than one pack at a time? Because with that you can easily end up with more MP than you can ever deal with through Dark Arts Abyssal Drain alone. You need to DADP to keep yourself from getting your MP capping and wasting away.
Do you just go ahead and Abyssal Drain at a mere two targets? Because at that point your MP is better served on DADP when it's up, barring the need to DA C&S or TBN, after all that, then yes go ahead and spend on DA single target attacks.
"Destroying your mana pool" is not a bad thing, if you do it in the right situations. These situations come up quite regularly. It's simply a matter of balancing cost, time, and generation. No, don't Dark Passenger at 1, 3-4 ever, or 5+ without a Blood buff running. Do Dark Passenger responsibly at 2 or 5+ with a Blood buff running.

Actually, it seems DA-DP only falls behind at 6 targets, 7 targets if you have slashing. You give up a little more MP, but gain some back with the Souleater combo that you wouldn't get a chance to do with Abyssal Drain, after the DA-DP, you can begin to spam Abyssal Drain.

So I'll concede the Dark Passenger point to you, seems I was wrong. Even when it starts to fall behind, the amount of MP you get back thru Quietus or Blood Weapon/Price seems to justify the use.

So the ability goes from something that always sees use, to something that only sees use in AoE with DA.

Still think my other points about my other suggestions stand though, and personally I'd rather have Dark Passenger be something that sees use even with one target (my opinnion). So I'd still like it to be free, but you are definitely right in having the DA buff built in is asking for too much.

Could be my math is wrong, but 240 (DA-DP) * 6 targets +770 Souleater potency over 3 GCDS with Slashing comes out at 2210, while 120 (Abyssal Drain) * 6 targets * 3 GCDS comes out at 2160 still falling behind.

At 7, its 2450 for DA-DP with Souleater combo vs 2520 for 3 Abyssal Drains.

[Tankstuff]

you guys are arguing over aoe shit which is only relevant in dungeons aka faceroll content instead of worrying about balancing the important parts of our kit for savage/raids. Who cares about "oh well with 6 adds do this but SEVEN adds do this" just burn that shit down with AD its a dungeon. give us sole survivor pvp utility in pve, make dp useful on single target, buff cns dmg or add an effect to it, give us more mitigation for fluff dmg, fix tbn so server tick doesnt screw it up half the time.

[EusisLandale]

you guys are arguing over aoe shit which is only relevant in dungeons aka faceroll content instead of worrying about balancing the important parts of our kit for savage/raids.

There is general consensus on the matter of our raid mitigation issues. There is only so much that can be said there. "Physical for Dark Mind, Shadow Wall adjustments to put it in line with Sentinel or Vengeance, self healing out of Grit, The Blackest Night vs server ticks". Then you're just stuck going in circles.
But feedback is not just "I want. I want. I want." It also involves analysis of currently existing things as well as recent changes. Quietus's MP generation permitting actual use Dark Arts Dark Passenger again is worth discussing. The MP generation permitting Dark Arts Abyssal Drain spam again is worth discussing. Quietus's change fixed a lot of our dungeon woes by providing both mitigation through a usable Blind and through providing more self healing by permitting DAAD spam again.

Look what we've been reduced to. Pontificating for pages about AoE DPS breakpoints in 4mans?

Not exactly the goal on my end, but numbers catch people's attention better than "Hey this adjustment also provided us some extra mitigation and selfhealing in dungeon content."
Things would go so much easier if people would stop asking for things to be reverted, see; wanting Dark Passenger to be a mindless all situation damage button or asking for Scourge back when it's been basically baked into everything, and start focusing on moving forward. But sometimes you just have to hammer the point in like a lunatic before they get it.

[SyzzleSpark]

Dark Arts Dark Passenger

Honestly, DP or DA DP in dungeons is whatever, if its a gain or a loss its not a meaningful one because its not meaningful content.

Quietus giving MP now effects Quietus' effective potency (basically its 188 potency per target now), it has nothing to do with DP's potency. You're still spending 2400 mana for 100 potency, when that same amount of mana would yield almost 2 Abyssal Drains. DP is off-GCD, sure, but its use is just going to halt your Abyssal Drain usage and force you into an ST rotation sooner than you would have been otherwise.

Its use still primarily pertains to 4mans, which is not where a lot of us want to see changes. I occasionally get bored and push DP in dungeons and its like okay, whatever. It doesn't change the run at all, other than forcing me into a ST rotation if I'm not at 50+ Blood. Fact remains that spending 5040 MP over 2 GCDs to deal 340 potency yields .06 potency per point of mana. 2640 MP over 2 GCDs to deal 240 potency yields .09 potency per point of mana. DP is just bad. I mean use it in 4mans for the blind if you feel like it, but beyond that, its value or anything's value in 4mans is not worth pages of discussion right now, IMO, particularly with savage raids freshly released.

For Dark Passenger to have potency-to-mana efficiency with its current cost, its base potency would have to be 220, with a DA potency of 360. This would also make it a gain in single target, yet hilariously, it would still be weaker than it was in 3.x. DP had a potency-to-mana efficiency in 3.x of .125.

[EusisLandale]

Honestly, DP or DA DP in dungeons is whatever, if its a gain or a loss its not a meaningful one because its not meaningful content.

Not meaningful content to an incredibly small portion of people. And we can look forward to what is coming and consider what we have and how it applies and what we need.
Shinryu has adds, if, in Shinryu EX, the numbers increase this information is relevant. Shinryu's tail provides you periods where there are precisely two targets. As an example.

But that aside, the point I have been trying to make is that Dark Passenger is fine. It works. It does what it is supposed to. That it is not a single target button. To stop asking for that.
If someone starts asking for Scourge some more I'll start arguing against that and why we're fine that that button is gone.
In the mean time, posts with good ideas? Ones aiming to touch up our mitigation issues? Like button. That's what I hear catches the attention of devs more.

quietus generates more mp to spam ad. You dont waste it on da ad or dp thats a dps loss.

Quietus, yes. Quietus paired with Blood Price/Weapon? More MP than you can deal with with Abyssal Drain alone. More than you can deal with Dark Arts Abyssal Drain alone.
If you want to drive your MP up to 100% and leave it there because you want to throw a fit over not getting to use Dark Passenger mindlessly and just accept that it's situational, all the more power to you. You're being bad though.

[Tankstuff]

youre the one arguing over skills that are only used in dungeon content lol let me know when you get to O3S before you start calling people bad mkay

[EusisLandale]

youre the one arguing over skills that are only used in dungeon content lol let me know when you get to O3S before you start calling people bad mkay

So what you're saying here is you actually have no argument to disprove that a cut loss is superior to a full loss and instead go with "Lol you bad for not being halfway through new group content day two"

[Tankstuff]

quietus generates more mp to spam ad. You dont waste it on da ad or dp thats a dps loss. Only da ad if you run out of cds, or if your healer is actually dpsing. blind is garbage. There, 4 pages of aoe garbage put to rest. And I liked "mindless all situation damage buttons" better than what we have now. I miss low blow procs, reprisal, scourge, and a dp i actually put on my bar

[Falar]

you guys are arguing over aoe shit which is only relevant in dungeons aka faceroll content instead of worrying about balancing the important parts of our kit for savage/raids. Who cares about "oh well with 6 adds do this but SEVEN adds do this" just burn that shit down with AD its a dungeon. give us sole survivor pvp utility in pve, make dp useful on single target, buff cns dmg or add an effect to it, give us more mitigation for fluff dmg, fix tbn so server tick doesnt screw it up half the time.

There are more pressing issues, yes.

This is still an issue though, ours are many.

[EusisLandale]

Could be my math is wrong, but 240 (DA-DP) * 6 targets +770 Souleater potency over 3 GCDS with Slashing comes out at 2210, while 120 (Abyssal Drain) * 6 targets * 3 GCDS comes out at 2160 still falling behind.

I'm not so sure that at those numbers Souleater will be 770 instead of just 700. There is little cause I should think for a Samurai or Ninja to get that debuff out on a single target on so large a pull. So it would be 2140 vs 2160.
Looking at things from an AoE perspective, you should be pitting Abyssal Drain strictly against Quietus. 120 vs 160
Dark Arts Abyssal Drain costs you 39.2% MP
Quietus nets you 30-40% MP, 6-8 targets depending.
Pairing it with Blood Weapon will get you another 35-45% on top of returning 21-27 Blood.
Pairing it with Blood Price will get you, roughly 7.2-9.6% MP on top of returning 30-40 Blood, dipping a bit if anything is stunned, casting, or just a bit slow about attacking, or going up a bit if they're faster about it.
Salted Earth is another 6-8 Blood.
With those gains and costs in mind:
Blood Weapon will basically permit a rotation of Quietus, DAAD, DAAD to avoid capping on both MP and Blood, with a complete demand for excess spending only really coming up 7-8. 2400-3200 potency just on these buttons, with a 1440-1920 spike up if you work in DADP.
Blood Price, on the other hand, will basically necessitate alternating Quietus and DAAD every other GCD, and you'll have a demand for excess spending at 6 for sure. Per 3 GCDs this means alternating 2400-3200 and 2640-3520, averaging 2520-3360 with the same one time 1440-1920 spike if you DADP. An average 2016-2688 with a 1152-1536 spike after considering Grit's penalty.