DRK Consolidated Feedback Thread

[SyzzleSpark]

I feel like we are meme in the dev team's offices because people can't, just physically can't stop asking for FFXI throwbacks like Dread Spikes. Its probably why they don't take us seriously.

-_-

[Duelle]

I guess I'll throw my hat in the ring as well:

- Dark Passenger: Change the Dark Arts effect to a 3s Stun. If this is too strong for an attack on a 30s cooldown, increase the cooldown to 45s.
- Shadow Wall: Reduce the cooldown to 120s.
- Delirium: Allow it to also enhance Blood Price (Blood Price decreases damage taken) and Blood Weapon (either increase mana generated per hit or increase attack speed even further) upon use.
- Living Dead: Replace it with something else. If there's thematic concerns because of what happens in the lv50 DRK quest, here's a suggestion to cover that:

50 Shadow Guardian - Transfer all damage taken for the next 10s to your shadow. Upon expiring, receive accumulated damage over 15s. Accumulated damage cannot be greater than your max HP. Effect expires upon end of duration or if accumulated damage is equal to your max HP. Cooldown: 180s.

Spoiler:

Living Dead is clearly a call out to Fray and his role in the 30-50 DRK quests. Shadow Guardian is instead a call out to your inner darkness, who via this skill would take damage for you for a bit before transferring it to you (because your inner darkness is part of you, after all).

I know none of these address the lacking mitigation pre-70, but it's all I got for now.

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I feel like we are meme in the dev team's offices because people can't, just physically can't stop asking for FFXI throwbacks like Dread Spikes. Its probably why they don't take us seriously.

Dread Spikes did work as a mitigation cooldown of sorts, since the whole point of the spell was to negate damage so that you wouldn't die in the middle of pulling aggro with Souleater active. If we transferred it to FFXIV, it'd probably process damage taken and then heal the damage, effectively negating it, though I admit that's a little too close to the ineffectual mitigation model WAR had when ARR launched.

And it could be worse. We could be looking at Death Knights, Shadow Knights or Dark Avengers. Though I do wonder if DRKs would even want Bone Shield (stacking mitigation that can be gained/refreshed through the use of a specific attack), Icebound Fortitude (DRK already has this via Shadow Wall), Vampyric Blood (basically the bonuses of Defiance but in the form of a cooldown), Dancing Rune Weapon and the Death Strike+Blood Shield mechanic (DRK already has this, though it's split between Souleater and TBN).

[Valdegarde]

Now it's being compared to other MMO Dark Knights. I agree with SyzzleSpark, I feel like one of the reasons Dark Passenger has been forgotten and trashed is that people (and SE) just conveniently forget that it's Cecil's signature skill. You know, the straight up random battle ender that started Dark Knights as a thing in the entire Final Fantasy series in the first place. But perhaps this too is fate, considering Cecil also gave it up for the more OP Paladin...

[SyzzleSpark]

Look what we've been reduced to. Pontificating for pages about AoE DPS breakpoints in 4mans?

[Kalocin]

I don't understand how people can argue that over half your mana bar for a blind is worth it. Unless you have incompetent healers you're better off with the health drain (edit: What I meant is the mana to potency alongside the health return is better, not that it is better. Looking back I can see how this was confusing.) from abyssal. On top of that it's actually able to hit all the adds while dark passenger is likely only to hit half. It's mana cost for what it offers is too high, even for big groups. Quietus lets me use more abyssal drains, not DA/DP. There's a difference between "can be used" and "there's a better option".

I can tank without using my cool downs and let the healer pick up the slack, it works right? Unfortunately it's a bad option though. If we recovered as much mana like we did pre-Stormblood then I could see the high mana making sense but as it is I'll never cap my mana with abyssal drain before I'll have enough blood to use Quietus.

Thus, unless I'm supremely dying with no living dead or cool downs up I'll consider using DA/DP. On top of that, I don't understand why we also don't mention that dark passenger currently has no use OUTSIDE of dark arts. The mana cost for 100 potency is too high to justify it.

and if we're to talk about analysis regarding raid mitigation:

Main tanking Susano Ex (since it's the most common example): TBN breaks only on the big hits, if it was 6-7 seconds it would break from auto, leaving you only to use it mostly on Stormsplitters which you need it for anyways. Likewise you need Shadow Wall or Rampart for it so there's a good chance you're going to be stuck with only one of those that can't be used leaving you to be flogged on with no extra mitigation. Dark Mind is for Uheki. There's a lack of "I just want to reduce damage that isn't a buster" cooldown, and that's not cool. Likewise, we do the same damage as Paladins (from dummy tests) but we lack as much mitigation as they do to make up for it. There's a lot "???" involved.

If we're to talk about Shinryu's adds:

No, I'm not spending that much mana on DA/DP when I need it to pick up the next big or pile of adds. They die too fast for the blind to be effective or I'm better off using TBN to break on adds or the meteor AoEs. After that, I'm going to want enough mana for the next phase so I'd rather not be empty.

Mitigation analysis pre-70:

You run out of cool downs between pulls and your healer picks up the slack. This is especially true for tanks leveling without all their role skills before 46.

Solution?

Dunno I'm not a designer but I don't think anyone would cry if blood price had steady mitigation baked into it (heck I'd even trade the mana return on it for mitigation). Nor can anyone really say no to 6-7 seconds on TBN


Also: Going in circles is not a bad thing, it gives awareness and as far as I am concerned there's obviously not enough of it.

[Kabooa]

Unless you have incompetent healers you're better off with the health drain from abyssal.

a DAAD is about 75% the mana of a DAP. For all intents and purposes you're going to be spending the (effectively) same amount of MP for this. The only time this will cover the damage you're going to take is if the enemy's auto attack damage is in the range of the Abyssal's damage (Which is only on the designated AOE packs any ways).

DADP will outperform the amount of health it saves you in the former case by one dodge on every mob (Easily doable over 15 seconds) or one- two on a bigger mob, especially if it was their designated "200% more damage" ability.

It also isn't on the GCD, allowing you to utilize something else in that time span. DAAD + AD is 5300 MP compared to 4800 for DADP for 240 potency in both cases, but one doesn't suck up two GCDs.

You can say DADP it's worthless all you want, but never say DAAD is better for staying alive. That's an outright lie.

[Kalocin]

That's an outright lie.

That's actually not what I said, I never even said DA/AD. That being said I can see why it looked that way, I meant more the potency with the health return bonus is usually better than wasting half the bar of mana as you're looking at damage and enmity.

There are more pressing issues, yes.

This is still an issue though, ours are many.

I agree, that's why we need to be vocal about all of em.

[Kabooa]

That's actually not what I said, I never even said DA/AD. That being said I can see why it looked that way, I meant more the potency with the health return bonus is usually better than wasting half the bar of mana as you're looking at damage and enmity.
.

I mean, for the record, I treat it as a last ditch defensive cooldown, so while I don't entirely agree with the view, I do agree the niche use is a bit too niche.

It's a dual-ability. It is both offensive and defensive, and while the sum of it works for when you need it specifically, there's other competing MP cooldowns that do one part of it better.

Quietus gaining an MP gain (a Delayed MP gain too, given the way AOEs work in this game) does put it back on the table to prevent overflow, but then, it's also a TBN plus more Drains, other Dark Arts...

I'd rather not see it be just another braindead OGCD though. I find the current iteration more interesting because it at least forces thought in the few scenarios it would see use, but it can use help.

At a baseline, I think it should count for Blood Weapon MP restore, as a bare minimum. This at least provides it a scaling return on how much 'Damage' you get per MP spent.

As far as spitballing specific uses though...

As far as single target goes, I don't think it really needs it, but, I wouldn't say no if Dark Arts refunds its cost if it only hits one enemy.

Grit: The blind is nice, but a bit binary, and useless on enemies immune to it. Many Dark Knights point to a lack of a solid cooldown to deal with non-buster damage. Remove the blind effect, and add one of the following when Dark Arts'd:
-20% heal siphon from enemies that hit you (An effective 20% mitigation effect on stuff that can't one shot you)
-Shadowskin makes a return for 10 seconds (effectively 33% uptime, can be utilized for more than auto attacks)
-Dark Passenger reduces the cooldown of Shadow Wall by 30 seconds (Allowing more liberal use of the cooldown, giving it an effective 90s cooldown)

Out of Grit: Doesn't need much else if it benefits from Blood Weapon and refunds the DA cost on single target.

[SyzzleSpark]

A DRK MTed world 1st O4S, so RIP SE taking this thread seriously, or any other like it.

[DWolfwood]

A DRK MTed world 1st O4S, so RIP SE taking this thread seriously, or any other like it.

Guys, I just wanna chime in and remind people that SE is not going to take us seriously if threads are filled with nothing but pessimism. Please, submit your ideas rather than tear other peoples ideas down.

When all ideas are on the table, there can be a reasonable discussion on what is more urgent and important. We all know this job is broken and we need to work together to get our changes.

If SMN can get a Bahamut Egi, the sky is the limit. Stay positive.