DRK Consolidated Feedback Thread

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Casuals are turning out to be a worse enemy of progress towards DRK changes than a meta of any kind.
Apparently people can't handle the idea that the job they find fun in 4-mans and fates is anything less than perfect, and any suggestion that it could be improved upon or that it is subpar compared to its alternatives triggers the living hell out of them.

I've noticed this fragile mentality with a few jobs. Twice now in both MrHappy and Xeno's stream, people got their knickers all twisted because I dared to say Samurai's easy to play and needs to do more damage if its going to fill the selfish DPS role. Some people just can't stand the idea their preferred job isn't amazing.

[Chrono_Rising]

Casuals are turning out to be a worse enemy of progress towards DRK changes than a meta of any kind.
Apparently people can't handle the idea that the job they find fun in 4-mans and fates is anything less than perfect, and any suggestion that it could be improved upon or that it is subpar compared to its alternatives triggers the living hell out of them.

So then WF happen and they lambasted him some more about it and I guess he was forced to bend the knee. Oh well.

I think this is a pretty common occurrence. People have preferences, and sometimes we convince ourselves that something is the best or good just because we enjoy it. Dark knight looks cool, plays flashy and thats about it. I think the only thing that can be done is to keep awareness of the issues going and just hope people start to see the light as time goes by.

As for Mr. Happy. I don't follow him, but from what I have seen he has a bad track record when it comes to his tank predictions. In his 3.x video he claimed paladin and dark knight we about the same in effectiveness, they weren't. In his analysis video when he demoed the game pre-release he claimed dark knight was set up to be the damage dealer of the tanks, looking at the past standings dark knight has always seemed to be behind, and the current standings warrior has that place over dark knight by 300. His 4.x tank video does hit on a lot of good points and might be the exception.

[MauvaisOeil]

I think this is a pretty common occurrence. People have preferences, and sometimes we convince ourselves that something is the best or good just because we enjoy it. Dark knight looks cool, plays flashy and thats about it. I think the only thing that can be done is to keep awareness of the issues going and just hope people start to see the light as time goes by.

As for Mr. Happy. I don't follow him, but from what I have seen he has a bad track record when it comes to his tank predictions. In his 3.x video he claimed paladin and dark knight we about the same in effectiveness, they weren't. In his analysis video when he demoed the game pre-release he claimed dark knight was set up to be the damage dealer of the tanks, looking at the past standings dark knight has always seemed to be behind, and the current standings warrior has that place over dark knight by 300. His 4.x tank video does hit on a lot of good points and might be the exception.

Not to defend him, as I don't follow streamers of any kind, but no one could predict the content as "Magical damage focused" and thus pushing the PLD out of the meta (or even out of any party hoping for a down).

Making two jobs on par and one focused magical damage, the other focused physical, is technically correct if your content is either balanced around both sources, of TB include physical and magical components each times.

[SyzzleSpark]

Statistics update. Past week in Savage:

Warrior 11,321
Paladin 13,624
Dark Knight 7,116

Past 2 weeks:

Warrior 23,091
Paladin 27,982
Dark Knight 14,756

[jameseoakes]

Statistics update. Past week in Savage:

Warrior 11,321
Paladin 13,624
Dark Knight 7,116

Past 2 weeks:

Warrior 23,091
Paladin 27,982
Dark Knight 14,756

How is DRK damage so low? I thought it was only a fairly modest DPS difference (although still significant)
Edit I'm bad at understanding statistics :C sorry

[Chrono_Rising]

This is how often the class is run in savage, not damage stats.

[SyzzleSpark]

How is DRK damage so low? I thought it was only a fairly modest DPS difference (although still significant)

Those aren't DPS numbers, they're usage numbers. DPS numbers have DRK about 100DPS behind PLD and 200-300DPS behind WAR, depending on percentile.

As I've said in other threads, the reason usage numbers are so important is that they show that there isn't something particularly special that makes up for DRK's low DPS. If DRK's DPS was the only problem, but it excelled in certain other areas, DRK would be much closer to the other two in usage. Its so far behind because WAR and PLD just do everything better, even if only slightly.

The usage statistics are also completely unaffected by percentile, and so they are completely unrelated to meta, speed runs, prog, etc. (i.e. the argument "don't listen to the meta" doesn't apply. these numbers factor in everyone, meta-conscious or not). Its just everybody who is raiding, no matter how good or bad they are, or why they're doing it. It illustrates something of a rejection of the job by the community.

[jameseoakes]

Those aren't DPS numbers, they're usage numbers. DPS numbers have DRK about 100DPS behind PLD and 200-300DPS behind WAR, depending on percentile.

As I've said in other threads, the reason usage numbers are so important is that they show that there isn't something particularly special that makes up for DRK's low DPS. If DRK's DPS was the only problem, but it excelled in certain other areas, DRK would be much closer to the other two in usage. Its so far behind because WAR and PLD just do everything better, even if only slightly.

The usage statistics are also completely unaffected by percentile, and so they are completely unrelated to meta, speed runs, prog, etc. Its just everybody who is raiding, no matter how good or bad they are, or why they're doing it. It illustrates something of a rejection of the job by the community.

My bad sorry, hmm that is quite a big difference. Are there statistics of the DRK play rate at none savage end game?

[SyzzleSpark]

In non-savage end-game the data is going to tell slightly less pointed story, as the content is older, people care less about what they are running, are more likely to run the content on alt jobs, farm for drops on certain jobs, etc. But DRK is still at the bottom across the board here as well. You can poke around on flogs to find all of these numbers for yourself as well, so don't just take my word for it. (not going to directly link to the site on the OF, though.)

Over 2 weeks:

Rabanastre:
Warrior 7,539
Paladin 10,591
Dark Knight 6,661

Susano:
Warrior 1,245
Paladin 1,601
Dark Knight 1,092

Lakshmi:
Warrior 815
Paladin 933
Dark Knight 654

Shinryu:
Warrior 3,915
Paladin 4,752
Dark Knight 2,042

[Chrono_Rising]

I don't know where to post this but I would like to just point out something. I notice people telling us that our dps only matters in speed runs and if you are at the top 1%. While higher dps is important in those instances I would like to point out that this is not an issue which only effects that 1%.

Dark Knight dps, and thus one of the factors people consider when choosing a tank, is behind at all levels of play. This is not a 1% issue, your dps does matter, and while not as pronounced at lower percentiles, you can still expect to be behind paladin by 100 to 150 dps and behind warrior by 200 to 300 at most percentiles. Don't let people tell you it doesn't matter, because quite frankly it does. If I could find 200 dps on my dragoon (I should try jumping into less aoe) I would be doing everything in my power to find it.

I also notice people are commenting about warrior buffs, and pointing out the inconsistencies of the highest tank feeling it needs more damage. But I've noticed a steep decline in conversation in dark threads about buffs. We need to keep the conversation going as much as possible.