DRK Consolidated Feedback Thread

[SyzzleSpark]

Third Eye doesnt work like TBN. Its easier and more reliable to proc. It has less risk involved because there are no costs and its also not your most important mitigation skill at the same time.

Its funny because you're basically highlighting some problems with the skill at the same time you're being contrarian in a feedback thread. If you're gonna post in here maybe offer up some ideas instead of just randomly appearing 40 pages in to shoot others down.

[NymeriaVelaris]

Its funny because you're basically highlighting some problems with the skill at the same time you're being contrarian in a feedback thread. If you're gonna post in here maybe offer up some ideas instead of just randomly appearing 40 pages in to shoot others down.

There is no need to attack people because they are new to this thread or not agreeing with you.

I m not shooting anyone down, i just pointed out the actual consequences of the suggested TBN change, and why its not a good idea.


I dont see any problems with TBN in its current state. Maybe increase the duration to 6 seconds to make it more viable against auto attacks, thats it.

TBN is fine, there are other DRK skills which truly need help like Dark Passenger or Sole Survivor. Dark Mind was mentioned as well, but since all savage fights this tier have magic attacks it is extremely useful, so its hard to complain about it.

[DRKoftheAzure]

TBN is fine, there are other DRK skills which truly need help like Dark Passenger or Sole Survivor. Dark Mind was mentioned as well, but since all savage fights this tier have magic attacks it is extremely useful, so its hard to complain about it.

No it's not... 3.xx DRK who mained the job will tell you that TBN sucks in terms of mitigation in fights where PLD and WAR are more optimal unless enrage timer then they need DRK DPS...

[RLofOBFL]

Drk dps is too low, it needs a buff to put it on par with PLD.

TBN needs to be longer by at least 1 second.

One more mitigation skill needs to be added(Blood Price lower damage by 10%? DA dark mind also mitigates 15% physical?).

Dark Passenger needs an MP nerf, and it would be nice if it could fit in your single target rotation again.

Sole Survivor needs a lower CD, 60 seconds, and perhaps a single target use, even if they have to remove the MP gain.

Plunge animation lock is freaking brutal.

Shadow wall needs an additional effect, buff to 40%, or a reduced CD.

Souleater should regen half or even a quarter HP out of grit.

Blood price should be useable out of grit, even if they have to remove mp gain OR blood gain but not both.

[Lyth]

...

I don't think that TBN is "designed" as a break-even skill; its value is dependent on several external variables (SE potency, BS potency, DA potency), which is why its value fluctuates with every minor patch. Even when it "breaks-even" on average, there are some multiples of TBN usage which will be a net gain, and others which will be a net loss. If you somehow plan for all this and make it just about break-even out of Grit, then it ends up being a dps gain in Grit.

The present system is a lot more convoluted.

It's also worth pointing out that situational dps gains are new to DRK. Sole Survivor usage is very encounter-specific. Some fights have fairly regular add spawns. Others reward your creativity for throwing out SoSu on destructible objects, like giant swords and rocks. Some fights may never have anything that you can use the ability on. None of this has an earth-shattering effect on your dps; they're just a small reward for players who know how to use them. That's usually the draw of DRK over playing a simpler tank.

Having TBN commit to being a consistent gain would promote its use. You are not a White Mage. TBN is not a poor man's Divine Benison. This is a shield which triggers a counterattack. It would be nice to actively try to get procs off of your teammates, rather than feel like you need to hold off shielding because it's a dps loss and you no longer need the extra buffer outside of prog.

There are two ways of doing this. Either give Bloodspiller MP gain (i.e. one Syphon Strike's worth) so that it's not such a marginal gain over Syphon Strike and Souleater, or have TBN also apply a DA effect to your next Bloodspiller/Quietus when it breaks. The balance has to swing so that your blood moves feel more powerful, in order for this to happen.

[NymeriaVelaris]

I don't think that TBN is "designed" as a break-even skill; its value is dependent on several external variables

You think its a coincidence TBN is a break even skill despite being dependent on so many variables?

I doubt that. Its obviously intended this way. The changes in past patches were just fine tuning to reach the current sweetspot.

Having TBN commit to being a consistent gain would promote its use. You are not a White Mage. TBN is not a poor man's Divine Benison. This is a shield which triggers a counterattack. It would be nice to actively try to get procs off of your teammates, rather than feel like you need to hold off shielding because it's a dps loss and you no longer need the extra buffer outside of prog.

It is no dps loss on average though.


Sole Survivor is a very weak skill with a 2 minutes cooldown, ofcourse it doesnt affect DRK dps by much.


TBN has a 15 seconds cooldown.

Currently in a 10 minutes fight the average DRK uses TBN around 5-15 times while being able to optimize dps.
If a successful TBN would be a significant DPS increase, it would mean an average use of 3-4 TBNs per minute if you want to optimize your dps.

It would require 30-40 successful TBN uses in a 10 minute fight for max dps.

An insane skill ceiling increase and a nightmare to optimize.
And if you are doing any content which doesnt have enough outgoing damage DRK dps would always suffer.

[Lyth]

You think its a coincidence TBN is a break even skill despite being dependent on so many variables?

It isn't really, though. It's a clear dps gain if you truncate out a Hard Slash from the encounter. It's a significant dps loss if you truncate out a Syphon Strike or Souleater. You only break even when you truncate an entire combo, which resets it to being about even. There are certain multiples of TBN which are dps gains, certain multiples which are dps losses, and certain multiples where you just about break even.The only way to find out is to map out all of the encounter GCDs and math it out on each fight. That's a level of complexity above what I'm proposing, and most people just don't bother with it. It would be significantly better to know if it was a consistent gain or loss, regardless of the GCD layout of the fight.

And that's just when you're out of Grit. The potency trade-offs are different once you're actually in Grit. It also depends on which patch that you're talking about. I've had to recalculate the trade-off from scratch in 4.00, 4.01, and 4.05, and none of these were direct changes to TBN. It's never consistently been a gain, loss, or even.

So no, I really, really don't think it's by deliberate design.

Sole Survivor is an undertuned skill with 2 minutes cooldown, ofcourse it doesnt affect DRK dps by much.

Sole Survivor is still a situational gain, though, and it's thankfully a consistent one at that (i.e. it's never a dps loss to use it). If you're looking to perfectly optimise the fight, then you're going to use SoSu wherever you can. But it's not going to compensate for you missing GCDs or not perfecting your rotation elsewhere.

The same is true for TBN. Making it into a consistent dps gain isn't going to upturn everything you know about the job. You should know the mitigation timings for both tanks anyways. But you shouldn't be holding back a TBN cast on your co-tank simply because you can't remember if the next GCD to be truncated by Bloodspiller is going to be a dps gain or loss. That basically defeats the purpose of the skill.

If you're doing content with fewer AoEs, does SAM suffer due to a lack of Third Eye procs?

[NymeriaVelaris]

It isn't really, though. It's a clear dps gain if you truncate out a Hard Slash from the encounter. It's a significant dps loss if you truncate out a Syphon Strike or Souleater. You only break even when you truncate an entire combo, which resets it to being about even.

You can save Bloodspiller, finish your combo, and use it when the boss comes back. Nothing lost.
Planning out GCDs for an entire fight is indeed too complex and therefore we should only consider the average gain/loss, which is even. And if you consider healer dps its a gain.

The same is true for TBN. Making it into a consistent dps gain isn't going to upturn everything you know about the job.

As i said, instead of 5-15 TBN uses in a 10 minute fight we are looking at 30-40 uses if you want to optimize. And these 30-40 uses will have to be applied on basically everything the boss throws at you, including auto attacks. On top of that if you fail (which is much more likely with more risky uses), the dps loss would be even bigger than it is now. So yes, ofcourse it would change the gameplay in a big way and increase the skill ceiling tremendously.

[Galgarion]

Does there come a point where soul eater starts delivering better self-healing? I'm leveling my DRK now, and it's just brutal compared to how easy I have it as a warrior. Soloing fates and questing feels like a chore, and I'm keeping my chocobo out as a necessity instead of a whim.

[347SPECTRE]

Nope, never try to rely on Soul Eater self heal, it's crap. It might help a little but it's not gonna get you too far.