DRK Consolidated Feedback Thread

[Starkbeaumont]

First of all I like DRK as it is now. Yes it could use minor improvements and yes, loving it so much, I would like to excel it at everything. But with other 2 tanks in mind that won't work:


I think we all can agree on SW needing an improvement. Either boost it's power or lower the recast (I would favor the 2nd, but I can already see PLDs crying).

Also DP. With the Quietus buff it's easier to fit in our aoe rotation though it's still not really a dps gain. I simply don't understand the need for the initial MP cost. I'd even trade the mp cost for a higher cd if needed for balance.

Edit: Forgot about Living Dead. I already put my suggestions in the corresponding topic.


Now on to the other suggestions:

The idea to give BP a damage taken buff (10%) is great. It would be around the same effect that old Reprisal gave and would BP+Delirium give more meaning. But this buff + SW buff would be too much imo. it's probably also stronger and more reliable than PLD's passive reduction through blocks.

DM reducing both damage types is also throwing off balance, especially with the other buffs in mind. Personally i would change it's DA effect, since DM+TBN is most of the time stronger than DADM. I would suggest DADM extending the buff to the whole pt (maybe increase base on DRK to 20% and on the pt 10%)

I would also increase the MP gain through non-DA CS.

[SyzzleSpark]

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So a % reduction to damage taken on Blood Price would be more analogous to Inner Beast or Clemency in terms of where it fits in our kit, rather than PLD's shield. Case in point, Clemency is a DPS loss, both in that it robs you of a Holy Spirit later on and costs a GCD; Inner Beast is a DPS loss in that it requires you to be in tank stance to use, same with Equilibrium. So because Blood Price is now locked behind Grit, it would be a similar DPS loss to rely on for mitigation. Right now none of DRK's mitigation tools are locked behind tank stance, and yet they're mostly lackluster. This would give us the option, if we so chose, to make the sacrifice of DPS for additional mitigation. Granted most of the time we wouldn't want this, but to not even have the choice is a little silly. Souleater's self heal is the only thing locked behind Grit and lets be real, it in no way equates to any of the abilities mentioned for the other tanks.

It doesn't even have to be 10%, I would be okay with it being simply a 10% buff to our defense/magic defense (something like 5-8% less damage taken). Just something to smooth out damage over time.

Dark Passenger's MP cost is ridiculous on all fronts and it needs to be reverted ASAP. Its a bloody travesty of nearly (but not quite) Shake If Off proportions. There is literally no justification for it. They could give it back to us in its original form and with our DPS currently being the lowest of the 3 tanks, it wouldn't throw anything out of balance whatsoever. WAR and PLD have 300 potency attacks on 30s cooldowns with less of a resource cost (if any) than our 100 potency attack that costs 1/4 of our mana on the same recast time. The theme for SB was reducing ability bloat, and if they wanted to make this skill as useless as it currently is, they should have just removed it and baked its potency into something else. Riddle me this SE, how does a 100 potency line AoE cost 2400 more mana than a 525 potency AoE DoT?

DM reducing both damage types I could pass on if they added damage reduction to Blood Price and lowered Shadow Wall's recast and increased its duration. Its great for tankbusters, sure, but our kit is already packed with skills that are great for tankbusters, and none that are good for fluff damage, like Raw Intuition or Bulwark, even as much as those skills have their downsides. However, 15% reduced magic damage for the entire party for 10s while we go right on attacking... I'd draw the line at that I'm afraid. That's almost a tank LB1 for magic damage every 60 seconds. Considering the kind of mitigation you can get with DM+TBN, DADM reducing both damage types isn't just balanced, it makes sense.

Non-DAC&S is fine where it is, especially with the change to Quietus.

I don't think any of these changes are too much. Look at the changes WAR got in 4.05, the changes PLD got in 4.0, AST in 3.4, DRG in 2.45. Almost nothing is too much if people complain loud enough.

[Freyyy]

People need to stop thinking that making DM reduce all damage instead of just magic would be OP. PLD can block magic now. How would DM being all-damage mitigation be OP compared to PLD being able to block magic ? Seriously. On top of that, currently, they put magic tank busters, cleaves and autos in raids so that DM is still useful. Making DM reduce all damage would just allow them to put any type of damage at any time and the skill would be as useful as now, not OP in any way, shape or form. Especially compared to PLD's mitigation kit. Currently, DM is just completely useless whenever the fights do only physical damage. Just like Sheltron and Bulwark were before on magic-only fights. They fixed the issue for PLD, but fixing it for DRK would be OP ? Really bro ?

[Starkbeaumont]

stuff

cause DRK also has TBN. TBN is DRK's Sheltron/Inner Beast. Not Dark Mind.

[SyzzleSpark]

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I really think whoever designed DRK's mitigation suite needs a goddamn vacation, preferably unpaid. PLD can block magic now, they don't have a single ability that doesn't work on all damage types, and while WAR's Raw Intution is physical only, physical AAs are overwhelmingly dominant and so it always has a place in any piece of content, and the rest of their cooldown roster is so well-designed it doesn't even matter. Then you look at DRK and its like what the hell where they thinking? Living Dead, a cooldown that only works on magic, and Shadow Wall which averages to an embarrassing 1.66% mitigation over 3 minutes, but oh okay that's fine, give them a stoneskin every 15s that we're going to design in such a way that it is DPS optimal to have it GO AWAY and STOP MITIGATING DAMAGE inside of a 5 SECOND WINDOW. Get outta here.

And not a single cooldown outside of cross role that lasts longer than 10 seconds? Really? REALLY?

WTB the guy that designed PLD/WAR CDs pls.

cause DRK also has TBN. TBN is DRK's Sheltron/Inner Beast. Not Dark Mind.

TBN is not an excuse to make the rest of our cooldown suite stunningly and embarrassingly awful.

[Starkbeaumont]

TBN is not an excuse to make the rest of our cooldown suite stunningly and embarrassingly awful.

and you think PLDs would be cool with DRKs having another all damage CD that is on a 1min recast and costs no resources (or 2400 mp with doubled potency) which can be easily paired with TBN? When Sheltron is crap for any multi hitting attack?

PLD needs to rely on cross call skills just as much. You could count PoA but you are doing no damage while it lasts. Bulwark is not reliable in Raids and in dungeons Anticipation is just as good cause of the lower recast.

[Freyyy]

snip.

You didn't read the rest of his post at all did you ?

And I didn't say that DM was DRK's Sheltron/IB, I'd like it to be atleast DRK's ToB or Bulwark. DRK currently only has Shadow Wall as a sentinel/vengeance equivalent, but yet it is weaker than both. Everything else is either magic-only (DM), cross-role (so other tanks have them too) or TB mitigation (TBN, just like IB and Sheltron). Yet the other tanks both have at least 1 extra mitigation on top of these, which DRK lacks. All of that on top of having the weakest "big" mitigation CD. If you still fail to see why we're complaining right now we can't do anything more to help you.

[SyzzleSpark]

and you think PLDs would be cool with...

Whether or not another tank is "cool" with buffs to my job is not a balancing metric.

...DRKs having another all damage CD...

Another? You mean like, the same amount as PLD has?

...that is on a 1min recast and costs no resources (or 2400 mp with doubled potency)...

We're asking for DADM alone to mitigate physical damage as well, not regular DM. For 2400 mana that's a fair price considering we can already get similar mitigation to both damage types in TBN+DM. We're asking for DADM to have a purpose for existing. None of PLD's cooldowns cost them DPS to operate effectively. (Clemency and PoA are not cooldowns)

...which can be easily paired with TBN? When Sheltron is crap for any multi hitting attack?...

This is how it is right now, already. We already pair TBN with DM and Sheltron is already crap for multi-hitting attacks. What we're asking is for DADM to not be strictly inferior to TBNDM. You think "PLD's would be cool" with us having a slightly weaker tank LB1 for magic damage on a 60s recast? Cause THAT would actually give PLD serious competition in the utility department. That's more mitigation than Delirium and Reprisal combined.

PLD needs to rely on cross call skills just as much.

Except it doesn't. You already have a solid cooldown suite combined with a shield that like I said just makes PLD hands-down tanker than the other two tanks now that they can block magic. PLD's shield used to not be a big deal, but now, it absolutely is. PLD can take Rampart and Conva and be completely solid, DRK takes the same CR abilities because it clings to dear life without them unless its being propped up by magic-heavy content. DRK is THE reason tankbusters are almost all magical, and seemingly any fight now with physical ones ensures a tank swap mechanic so that DRK needn't take every single one.

[Freyyy]

We're asking for DADM alone to mitigate physical damage as well, not regular DM. For 2400 mana that's a fair price considering we can already get similar mitigation to both damage types in TBN+DM. We're asking for DADM to have a purpose for existing. None of PLD's cooldowns cost them DPS to operate effectively.

I think that even DM without DA should mitigate both damage types. Having CDs that only mitigate one type of damage is very bad design and absolutely terrible to balance since it also relies on encounter design. DM should have the same purpose to exist on every fight, whether it be mostly magical or mostly physical, with and without DA. DA should just make it stronger, or add an extra effect. That's the reason why they made PLD able to block magic damage. I wouldn't have anything against Raw Intuition getting buffed so that WAR can parry magic too with this CD on. I'm just done with only 1 damage-type CDs. It's just shitty design.

[Starkbeaumont]

PLD has Sentinel, Sheltron, Bulwark and Passage of Arms. Bulwark and PoA can't be combined with Sheltron as all block damage. Bulwark is ok for dungeon pulls but has a long CD. it's crap for single target/raids. How is that solid without cross class?

Also Sizzle, if you want balance you should care as much about the other tanks as you do about DRK.