"Pull Everything" in Dungeon Parties

[Ashewalker]

There is a rule of mine i tend to follow very well... If you pull, you tank. I have had times where i litterally left the boss room because other people act like asses and pull before i do pull.

Yes you will think of me as an ass myself, but i there is something called respect, if you are not happy with my speed, then your problem, if you are dps then man up and suck it up, without us tanks you won't get into a dungeon or even get far in a dungeon. If you are healer, why are you worrying about speed? You should be worried about keeping us alive when we get into the boss! Want speed? Then dps during the boss when i have a cooldown up!

[Sakei]

if you are not happy with my speed, then your problem, if you are dps then man up and suck it up, without us tanks you won't get into a dungeon or even get far in a dungeon. If you are healer, why are you worrying about speed? You should be worried about keeping us alive when we get into the boss! Want speed? Then dps during the boss when i have a cooldown up!

Yes, I'm not ever worried about speed I'm worried only on health. I see it drop very fast at times. I'm not going to call anyone out, I've dealt with very good tanks. However, could you maybe pull some smaller pulls, especially when it's my first time there. I realize you are confident in your ability. However, I may not be ready with all of the cd's your typical healers are throwing out. It's better safe than sorry as they say, and a slightly slower run might be more fun while many of us are gearing up.

[Ashewalker]

Yes, I'm not ever worried about speed I'm worried only on health. I see it drop very fast at times. I'm not going to call anyone out, I've dealt with very good tanks. However, could you maybe pull some smaller pulls, especially when it's my first time there. I realize you are confident in your ability. However, I may not be ready with all of the cd's your typical healers are throwing out. It's better safe than sorry as they say, and a slightly slower run might be more fun while many of us are gearing up.

Actually i meant this as if i go on slow pace^^ but yeah, i understand what you mean, i'm a mentor after all and i take it seriously, soon as i see someone that is bonus to a dungeon i explain every boss and slow pull.

My favorite explanation is with Bardam's Mettle dungeon second boss, is just "Have you seen DBZ abridged? Yes? Then all you need to do is DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODGE"

[DJaySaint]

There is a rule of mine i tend to follow very well... If you pull, you tank. I have had times where i litterally left the boss room because other people act like asses and pull before i do pull.

Yes you will think of me as an ass myself, but i there is something called respect, if you are not happy with my speed, then your problem, if you are dps then man up and suck it up, without us tanks you won't get into a dungeon or even get far in a dungeon. If you are healer, why are you worrying about speed? You should be worried about keeping us alive when we get into the boss! Want speed? Then dps during the boss when i have a cooldown up!

Meh. I wasn't going to reply to this thread because the toxicity and self entitlement are insane, but the vocal minority really need to understand something. Long reply coming.

People like you are the problem.

Nowhere in the terms of service does it explicitly state that ONLY tanks are allowed to pull. Nowhere in the tutorial of the game, during any quest, UI element, or any other form of information in the game does it state that ONLY tanks are allowed to pull. This is something made up by a few entitled individuals who think they are God's gift to the player base just because they are playing a tank.

News flash: pressing Flash and 1-2-3 is not hard. You are no better than anyone else just because you have a blue icon. Your JOB is to protect the group, not get primadonna on everyone and go diva mode. If someone pulls? Sure you might be upset, but they are probably doing it for a reason. You are slow and inadequate and need to pick up the pace. Or maybe people just find bigger pulls more fun and exciting because it adds stress to the otherwise incredibly mundane situation. Some people like to push their limits because that is how you get BETTER. Just because you get your feelings hurt does not mean it gives you the right to NOT DO YOUR JOB. This is real life. As you say, man up and suck it up. Without DPS you don't get far in dungeons either because you still need to kill things. Without healers you won't survive long because you still need to live to win fights. Your role is important, but not more important than others.

But something to think about: "I won't tank because someone else pulled." That IS against terms of service and is a reportable offense, which I will report someone for 10/10 times. I'm so sick of this "You should bow down to my will or else" attitude and you know what? I'm glad GMs punish people like that. They punish people like you because no matter what, you are not allowed to just sit there and refuse to do your job and contribute. This is a MMO. It's a team game built around cooperation. You are refusing to cooperate out of spite because you think you are better than others and you adhere to this unwritten rule that a few entitled individuals like you feel should be enforced because reasons. You are not better than others. If someone pulls extra and it's a problem? Fine. Do your job, then after ask them to stop. They do it again? That is what the vote kick feature is for. Deliberately wasting other peoples' time because you got your feelings hurt is not acceptable anywhere. The fact that there are people who agree with that behavior is disgusting.

Stop thinking your time is more precious than others just because you are a tank. It's not. We have roles and jobs for a reason, everyone is equally important in groups. And guess what? As a tank you ARE REPLACEABLE. Especially in higher end content. I would suggest you take that "I matter more than you and therefore you should do everything I want or else" attitude elsewhere because entitlement won't get you very far in life.

You talk about respect but you clearly don't respect others. Respect is a two way street. You want people to respect you? Respect their time as well. If the healer is good and can heal big pulls, and the DPS is good and clearly shreds mobs VERY fast, then why be opposed to pulling more out of principle other than to have some artificial power over people and go "I'm the tank you do what I want or else"?

From a tank's perspective: I love big pulls. The bigger the better. It's a challenge holding everything, protecting my group, and staying alive during the process. Plus if you can handle it, people are more likely to go "holy crap what a badass"

From a healer's perspective: I love big pulls. The bigger the better. It's fun and engaging to find ways to mitigate the damage, DPS, and keep the tank upright at the same time. If you can handle it, people are more likely to go "holy crap this healer is a goddess"

From a DPS' perspective: I love big pulls. The bigger the better. It's just fun blowing stuff up. There is something more inherently satisfying Flaring 10 mobs and setting the world on fire than just beating on 2 with Fire.

Not everyone pulls more because "mah time". A lot of people pull more because they want something fun and engaging to do, and big pulls force you to pay attention. Baby pulls are mundane and people tend to just go auto pilot and do the bare minimum effort. If you have any respect for others, you would consider that also the next time you want to go "I'm better than thou" and refuse to tank. You are not the only person in the group. There are 3, 7, or 23 others to consider as well. If you are truly uncomfortable with more than the bare minimum and are a spiteful person, then maybe playing a tank isn't for you. Your job is to protect the group no matter what, including deliberate extra pulling or even accidental aggro. Same as healers who refuse to heal. It's still their job to protect the group.

Instead of going scorched earth and deliberately not doing your job, most of the problems can be solved at the very beginning of the dungeon by simply asking "do you guys prefer big pulls or small pulls?" Then if you still have someone who pulls big after everyone else said small, finish out that pull then vote kick them. Because it was already established at the start, the vote kick will go through almost every time. THAT is how the situation should be handled.

If I see a tank (or healer) refusing to do their job, I will GM them every time. It might be funny to you to let others die and refuse to contribute, but it's more funny to me to watch you get punished by a GM for doing so, up to and including getting banned if this is a normal behavior and you have been reported multiple times for doing it. For diva tanks out there, you might want to keep that in mind. There are players who don't worship the ground you walk on just because you happen to be a tank that instance. So stop acting like they should.

[hijifa]

Meh. I wasn't going to reply to this thread because the toxicity and self entitlement are insane, but the vocal minority really need to understand something. Long reply coming.

People like you are the problem.

Nowhere in the terms of service does it explicitly state that ONLY tanks are allowed to pull. Nowhere in the tutorial of the game, during any quest, UI element, or any other form of information in the game does it state that ONLY tanks are allowed to pull. This is something made up by a few entitled individuals who think they are God's gift to the player base just because they are playing a tank.

News flash: pressing Flash and 1-2-3 is not hard. You are no better than anyone else just because you have a blue icon. Your JOB is to protect the group, not get primadonna on everyone and go diva mode. If someone pulls? Sure you might be upset, but they are probably doing it for a reason. You are slow and inadequate and need to pick up the pace. Or maybe people just find bigger pulls more fun and exciting because it adds stress to the otherwise incredibly mundane situation. Some people like to push their limits because that is how you get BETTER. Just because you get your feelings hurt does not mean it gives you the right to NOT DO YOUR JOB. This is real life. As you say, man up and suck it up. Without DPS you don't get far in dungeons either because you still need to kill things. Without healers you won't survive long because you still need to live to win fights. Your role is important, but not more important than others.

But something to think about: "I won't tank because someone else pulled." That IS against terms of service and is a reportable offense, which I will report someone for 10/10 times. I'm so sick of this "You should bow down to my will or else" attitude and you know what? I'm glad GMs punish people like that. They punish people like you because no matter what, you are not allowed to just sit there and refuse to do your job and contribute. This is a MMO. It's a team game built around cooperation. You are refusing to cooperate out of spite because you think you are better than others and you adhere to this unwritten rule that a few entitled individuals like you feel should be enforced because reasons. You are not better than others. If someone pulls extra and it's a problem? Fine. Do your job, then after ask them to stop. They do it again? That is what the vote kick feature is for. Deliberately wasting other peoples' time because you got your feelings hurt is not acceptable anywhere. The fact that there are people who agree with that behavior is disgusting.

Stop thinking your time is more precious than others just because you are a tank. It's not. We have roles and jobs for a reason, everyone is equally important in groups. And guess what? As a tank you ARE REPLACEABLE. Especially in higher end content. I would suggest you take that "I matter more than you and therefore you should do everything I want or else" attitude elsewhere because entitlement won't get you very far in life.

You talk about respect but you clearly don't respect others. Respect is a two way street. You want people to respect you? Respect their time as well. If the healer is good and can heal big pulls, and the DPS is good and clearly shreds mobs VERY fast, then why be opposed to pulling more out of principle other than to have some artificial power over people and go "I'm the tank you do what I want or else"?

From a tank's perspective: I love big pulls. The bigger the better. It's a challenge holding everything, protecting my group, and staying alive during the process. Plus if you can handle it, people are more likely to go "holy crap what a badass"

From a healer's perspective: I love big pulls. The bigger the better. It's fun and engaging to find ways to mitigate the damage, DPS, and keep the tank upright at the same time. If you can handle it, people are more likely to go "holy crap this healer is a goddess"

From a DPS' perspective: I love big pulls. The bigger the better. It's just fun blowing stuff up. There is something more inherently satisfying Flaring 10 mobs and setting the world on fire than just beating on 2 with Fire.

Not everyone pulls more because "mah time". A lot of people pull more because they want something fun and engaging to do, and big pulls force you to pay attention. Baby pulls are mundane and people tend to just go auto pilot and do the bare minimum effort. If you have any respect for others, you would consider that also the next time you want to go "I'm better than thou" and refuse to tank. You are not the only person in the group. There are 3, 7, or 23 others to consider as well. If you are truly uncomfortable with more than the bare minimum and are a spiteful person, then maybe playing a tank isn't for you. Your job is to protect the group no matter what, including deliberate extra pulling or even accidental aggro. Same as healers who refuse to heal. It's still their job to protect the group.

Instead of going scorched earth and deliberately not doing your job, most of the problems can be solved at the very beginning of the dungeon by simply asking "do you guys prefer big pulls or small pulls?" Then if you still have someone who pulls big after everyone else said small, finish out that pull then vote kick them. Because it was already established at the start, the vote kick will go through almost every time. THAT is how the situation should be handled.

If I see a tank (or healer) refusing to do their job, I will GM them every time. It might be funny to you to let others die and refuse to contribute, but it's more funny to me to watch you get punished by a GM for doing so, up to and including getting banned if this is a normal behavior and you have been reported multiple times for doing it. For diva tanks out there, you might want to keep that in mind. There are players who don't worship the ground you walk on just because you happen to be a tank that instance. So stop acting like they should.

Lol.. you are the only one thats being entitled here.

Do you think the tank is deliberately wasting peoples time? Do you think he is purposely wasting his own time? You realise that running these dungeons over and over again is just as tedious for him as it is for you right?

So why do some tanks pull slow? Its easy, because they aren't comfortable with the dungeon, or new etc...

So YOU, should get off your high horse, and stop thinking that everyone is at elite as you, and let them pull as they want, because they aren't good, or didn't play that dungeon much before.
Maybe you are on auto pilot mode all the time, but they might be "struggling" there if they are new, even with small pulls.

SO..

1. Respect the tanks decision to go slow, as he is most likely new.
2. Even though some one else pulled the mobs, the tank should still pick up the mobs, as you said, if he doesn't he isn't doing his job.
3. If you don't respect him, he will not respect you, nuff said. If he chooses to let you die, this is you being disrespectful to him first.

PS This all goes down the drain if the tank is not new, and is PURPOSELY going slow for no reason except him being lazy. This is going to be a bad experience as he is also probably the type of tank you mentioned, who is very self entitled...

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip

What?

For someone complaining about tank responsibility, you seem to have neglected it's a tank's responsibility to pull. Therefore, purposefully pulling more means you've stepped outside your job parameters should we're to go by your logic. No one is obligated to keep another player alive because you decided to arbitrarily dart off-- away from the group-- to grab additional mobs. Once again, your argument proves hypocritical since to do that, you have to stop DPSing, which is your job, to pull, which is the tank's job. See how that doesn't quite line up? In fact, the devs dislike our rush strategies hence why gates were periodically added throughout Heavensward dungeons. They don't want tanks pulling entire rooms. What makes you think forcing mass pulls on tanks will see them punish the tank for allowing you to die? That's simply idiotic.

Regardless, GMs couldn't care less anymore than they do with healers who refuse to DPS. They will merely chalk it up to "playstyle differences" and suggest you blacklist players you don't wish to associate with again. Nothing else will come of your reports.

Putting all of that aside, your stance is rather presumption. Tanks pulling small generally aren't confident in their abilities. I have a friend who is terrified of tanking. If she were to ever attempt it, I guarantee she won't pull more than a single pack for a long while. Forcing her to suddenly grab one or two more won't abruptly make her a better tank. It'll likely have her panic spam Overpower/Unleash/Flash/CDs because she's not yet accustom to tanking and couldn't react. All you would have accomplished in this scenario is making her that much more unlikely to continue trying to improve, and wasted everyone else's time. Bluntly stated, if I were apart of that group, you'd be who I Vote Dismiss, not the tank. And this is coming from someone who mass pulls constantly.

[Tecs]

The people who insist on not "wasting" time with smaller pulls should just level a tank. They can pull however they like and the don't "waste" time sitting in a 30+ minute queue. For people who are so insistent about optimizing their time you would think this is a clear answer.

[Minizomb]

I never complain to a tank about their pulls, I am a firm believer you should do what you think its possible for you. But doesn't mean I am not screaming in my head and dying a bit on the inside. That and I feel you don't trust me, that someone in a past dungeon screwed you over now all heals get punished for it, lol.

[Kethic]

Honestly, just because I can handle the monster pulls doesn't mean I want to every damn time. If a tank can't be bothered to fscking ask first, I've started letting them die. Tired of this implicit communication bullshit. Use party chat. Ask. Decide on a pull size. Be a decent human being. Takes 30 seconds.

[Brill_]

Maybe groups should just communicate. People are so bent on "efficiency" that they can't be bothered to sort these things out in the beginning of the dungeon because spending a few extra minutes in a dungeon is unacceptable. Sorting out how things are going to go at the start of the dungeon would avoid a lot of these childish things.