Possible AST nerf

[Jijifli]

Adloquium has always been 300 potency heal and shield. Astrologian's Aspected Benefic now costs less, shields much more and is instant. Explain to me how "boosted back to their former power" even makes sense here?

Did you ignore SCH losing fairy potency, aetherflow getting the mp restore cut in half, as well as SCH Adlo's getting an MP cost increase?

I'm pretty sure SCH was pushed down from their former power now that Aetherflow doesn't even give enough for one Adlo.

[Sakei]

Did you ignore SCH losing fairy potency, aetherflow getting the mp restore cut in half, as well as SCH Adlo's getting an MP cost increase?

I'm pretty sure SCH was pushed down from their former power now that Aetherflow doesn't even give enough for one Adlo.

That was my biggest shock when I got back. I remember having a conversation with a mentor, and he said something about mp regen. My only thought was, since when do scholars have to worry about mp?

[Kabzy]

Did you ignore SCH losing fairy potency, aetherflow getting the mp restore cut in half, as well as SCH Adlo's getting an MP cost increase?

I'm pretty sure SCH was pushed down from their former power now that Aetherflow doesn't even give enough for one Adlo.

If you actually see the context of the entire post, I'm making a direct comparison between two moves that function the same. A single target shield.

You're bringing MP management into this, which personally I do not believe is an issue on any healer. If I get my infinite mana back, it's still not going to validate how much more powerful/brainless A.Benefic is compared to Adloquium.

[Jijifli]

If you actually see the context of the entire post, I'm making a direct comparison between two moves that function the same. A single target shield.

You're bringing MP management into this, which personally I do not believe is an issue on any healer. If I get my infinite mana back, it's still not going to validate how much more powerful/brainless A.Benefic is compared to Adloquium.

It was connected to bringing SCH back to it's old self. You compared to two spells, one that was buffed, and another that got a nerf. And yes, you're right, MP isn't an issue on any of them if we look into 8 man content. There, SCH has no issues. None of them do. They all perform well and I've seen no difference in performance.

Either way if AST gets punched I'd probably still play it. I mained it in 3.0 I know how playing a bad job feels and how to make it work (And I did make ast work then.) There is, however, a very important piece of information that's likely not gone through anyone's head.

Remember when SCH had better shields, and AST noct was considered worthless? I remember that. Is the issue that AST's shields are bigger than SCH's unless they crit? If so, won't making the shields from AST lower than SCH's no matter what just make it worthless again? We don't get a crit multiplier on the shield. If our shield's were a 250 potency, we'd be a laughing stock again, and just go back to double regen. SCH's were going for crit anyways last I checked, so they would be more often to get that huge shield boost. What likely happened in SE's thoughts was that since AST shields don't get the multiplier, they have to naturally be bigger than SCH's, or nobody would ever go Noct astrologian like before.

[Kabzy]

-Snip-

I actually do agree with most of what you've said, but I do question what that costs to the other healers.

AST can perform both roles, and as a hybrid is outclassing both who should be specialising in those roles. Do we then think it's fair for them to stay like that, along with their card buffs, just for the sake of their sects remaining relevant?

SCH is not going to be reverted to it's previous 3.x self. They removed too many abilities, and changed the entire playstyle of the job. One could argue that N.Sect was trash because SCH itself was perfect back then, but that won't be the case. (Unless they decide to give all our DoTs back, our mitigation in Virus and give the Faerie a significant buff.) With that being said, a shield being slightly weaker, but instant cast, is still powerful and doesn't then outclass the job that is meant to be known for shielding. And once again, they still bring card buffs, so it would not be anywhere near as bad as N.AST was pre 3.4.

AST is a mess to balance, they really should have removed one sect and added an opposite healer to balance, but they did not. So we either have this problem where AST can be stronger in every aspect, or we can let them shine with their buffs, tone down some of thier healing kit and give WHM/SCH their power back. Personally I'd rather see all three healers at the same level. Rght now we can all agree that WHM/SCH would be a viable but extremely suboptimal comp.

[Sakei]

snip

They are not a hybrid. They are one or the other. SCH is much more of a hybrid given that they can still have a regen going at times and AST is full on dam shield or no. The card buffs are random. It's a tradeoff. Lump them all together, and hell yes, I'll have another serving of AST please! We are comparing random 15 sec to 30 sec buffs. They are controlled by the rng. You can compare AST regen to the others, but you can't compare it with the damage shields at the same time. That is pure fantasy that even SE can't illustrate properly. Even you are making the argument for the issues at hand now, Kabzy. I have still played all healers, even though it was pre 4.0. I've played whm to 50, (hate it), sch to 60, and ast to 70. You have to see, nerfing all classes just makes all of them weak. If one is performing right, you can't bring it down to match the others. You only end up addressing the same issue all over again.

[Kabzy]

-Snip-

For the billionth time, it's not about AST performing 'right'. All healers are viable, but AST is just leagues ahead of the other two. At least Jijifli brought up some valid points, you're just continually failing to see the strength the job has right now. You can't always solve things by buffing, because then the healer role itself will be unbalanced relative to the content.

I'll clarify again, I don't think AST needs a lot of nerfs, or even any significant ones. I expect a mix of buffs to the others and slight nerfs will achieve balance. But keeping AST as it is now is simply ridiculous. When the entire game is focused around DPS, having such utlity as the Balance is something the other healers simply cannot match. And it may be gated by RNG, but get real. It's not that difficult to fish for, and the first one is always guaranteed.

Edit: Also I just went full douchebag mode and checked out your fflogs. You don't even exist there and Jiji doesn't have anything recorded. So as someone who actually has all three healers to 70 and can see the power gap between them, I'm not going to waste my time debating with you two. Lets just see what SE decide to do in a few hours.

[Sakei]

snip

All you said with that is that you are envious of AST. Yes, it is that difficult to fish for when it's completely random. I say again, you never balance by dragging another class down to one you consider to be broken. Yes, I know you claim the opposite but your statements do not back it up. You always end up overnerfing and readjusting. I've seen it a million times. I've played mmo's since 1999. It's never gone otherwise. I stand corrected, once EQ1 corrected an issue that let bards charm the god of the plane of fear. That may go down in history as the only beneficial nerf ever in the history of gaming.

[Sakei]

snip

You are comparing things that you feel backup your argument. Jijifi points out the real issues being discussed. All that has ever been brought up over and over are as Jijifi says. Hell, look through the first 2 pages, find me something that says anything about whm. The argument is here, so, it's being addressed. The healer forums don't show it. They show significant problems with sch that are nothing like you portray. Yes, they call for minor tweaks to what you stated, but the real problem is here. SCH's never had to worry about mp pre SB. SCH's had faerie's that could make up a good portion of healing without issue pre SB.