Possible AST nerf

[Sakei]

snip

Except, the cards are random... Hell, you can't count on balance being available in spread much less popping up at any given point. Once you have it, sure, tuck it away. However, you illustrate my point. You are not addressing an area that astro is overpowered. You are telling me areas the other classes have been nerfed too much in. This autocorrect is killing me. From here on out, astroturfing means ast ok? As for the potency of noct, the dam shield gets eaten fast by anything and everything. Hell, soloing in fates, it ends fast as hell. AST does not need nerfed, the others need boosted back to their former power.

[Kabzy]

AST does not need nerfed, the others need boosted back to their former power.

Okay, so lets just deal with one thing. I don't want to give your brain too much to handle. You have SCH listed on your character so I assume you have some basic knowledge on that.

Adloquium has always been 300 potency heal and shield. Astrologian's Aspected Benefic now costs less, shields much more and is instant. Explain to me how "boosted back to their former power" even makes sense here? A lot of the SCH/WHM healing kit wasn't even touched, so the clear issue here is that AST got too many unwarranted buffs that (more so in SCHs case) are completely outclassing the other jobs.

Once again, if you don't have at least a basic understanding of all three healer jobs in their current lv70 state, you have no business talking about healer balance in all honesty.

[Sakei]

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You just don't get it do you? AST had to be boosted heavily to be on par with the others. AST is by all accounts doing well in this expansion and the others are not. You never drag a class down to the others that you ADMIT are broken. You are a fool.

[Kabzy]

You just don't get it do you? AST had to be boosted heavily to be on par with the others. AST is by all accounts doing well in this expansion and the others are not. You never drag a class down to the others that you ADMIT are broken. You are a fool.

At which point did I say this?

Claiming that a job is outclassing the others doesn't mean that I'm saying they are broken. It was me highlighting that AST is currently overpowered. I think both WHM and SCH are viable, but AST is mandatory. That is the issue.

I don't want to see healing being faceroll in this game, and so I'd rather WHM/SCH not get buffed to levels that makes the content easy. This would take a lot of fun out of savage. And for the record, you didn't actually answer my question on the shields.

[Jijifli]

Adloquium has always been 300 potency heal and shield. Astrologian's Aspected Benefic now costs less, shields much more and is instant. Explain to me how "boosted back to their former power" even makes sense here?

Did you ignore SCH losing fairy potency, aetherflow getting the mp restore cut in half, as well as SCH Adlo's getting an MP cost increase?

I'm pretty sure SCH was pushed down from their former power now that Aetherflow doesn't even give enough for one Adlo.

[Sakei]

Did you ignore SCH losing fairy potency, aetherflow getting the mp restore cut in half, as well as SCH Adlo's getting an MP cost increase?

I'm pretty sure SCH was pushed down from their former power now that Aetherflow doesn't even give enough for one Adlo.

That was my biggest shock when I got back. I remember having a conversation with a mentor, and he said something about mp regen. My only thought was, since when do scholars have to worry about mp?

[Kabzy]

Did you ignore SCH losing fairy potency, aetherflow getting the mp restore cut in half, as well as SCH Adlo's getting an MP cost increase?

I'm pretty sure SCH was pushed down from their former power now that Aetherflow doesn't even give enough for one Adlo.

If you actually see the context of the entire post, I'm making a direct comparison between two moves that function the same. A single target shield.

You're bringing MP management into this, which personally I do not believe is an issue on any healer. If I get my infinite mana back, it's still not going to validate how much more powerful/brainless A.Benefic is compared to Adloquium.

[Jijifli]

If you actually see the context of the entire post, I'm making a direct comparison between two moves that function the same. A single target shield.

You're bringing MP management into this, which personally I do not believe is an issue on any healer. If I get my infinite mana back, it's still not going to validate how much more powerful/brainless A.Benefic is compared to Adloquium.

It was connected to bringing SCH back to it's old self. You compared to two spells, one that was buffed, and another that got a nerf. And yes, you're right, MP isn't an issue on any of them if we look into 8 man content. There, SCH has no issues. None of them do. They all perform well and I've seen no difference in performance.

Either way if AST gets punched I'd probably still play it. I mained it in 3.0 I know how playing a bad job feels and how to make it work (And I did make ast work then.) There is, however, a very important piece of information that's likely not gone through anyone's head.

Remember when SCH had better shields, and AST noct was considered worthless? I remember that. Is the issue that AST's shields are bigger than SCH's unless they crit? If so, won't making the shields from AST lower than SCH's no matter what just make it worthless again? We don't get a crit multiplier on the shield. If our shield's were a 250 potency, we'd be a laughing stock again, and just go back to double regen. SCH's were going for crit anyways last I checked, so they would be more often to get that huge shield boost. What likely happened in SE's thoughts was that since AST shields don't get the multiplier, they have to naturally be bigger than SCH's, or nobody would ever go Noct astrologian like before.

[Kabzy]

-Snip-

I actually do agree with most of what you've said, but I do question what that costs to the other healers.

AST can perform both roles, and as a hybrid is outclassing both who should be specialising in those roles. Do we then think it's fair for them to stay like that, along with their card buffs, just for the sake of their sects remaining relevant?

SCH is not going to be reverted to it's previous 3.x self. They removed too many abilities, and changed the entire playstyle of the job. One could argue that N.Sect was trash because SCH itself was perfect back then, but that won't be the case. (Unless they decide to give all our DoTs back, our mitigation in Virus and give the Faerie a significant buff.) With that being said, a shield being slightly weaker, but instant cast, is still powerful and doesn't then outclass the job that is meant to be known for shielding. And once again, they still bring card buffs, so it would not be anywhere near as bad as N.AST was pre 3.4.

AST is a mess to balance, they really should have removed one sect and added an opposite healer to balance, but they did not. So we either have this problem where AST can be stronger in every aspect, or we can let them shine with their buffs, tone down some of thier healing kit and give WHM/SCH their power back. Personally I'd rather see all three healers at the same level. Rght now we can all agree that WHM/SCH would be a viable but extremely suboptimal comp.

[Sakei]

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They are not a hybrid. They are one or the other. SCH is much more of a hybrid given that they can still have a regen going at times and AST is full on dam shield or no. The card buffs are random. It's a tradeoff. Lump them all together, and hell yes, I'll have another serving of AST please! We are comparing random 15 sec to 30 sec buffs. They are controlled by the rng. You can compare AST regen to the others, but you can't compare it with the damage shields at the same time. That is pure fantasy that even SE can't illustrate properly. Even you are making the argument for the issues at hand now, Kabzy. I have still played all healers, even though it was pre 4.0. I've played whm to 50, (hate it), sch to 60, and ast to 70. You have to see, nerfing all classes just makes all of them weak. If one is performing right, you can't bring it down to match the others. You only end up addressing the same issue all over again.