Possible AST nerf

[PharisHanasaki]

AST healing needs a rework like BRD got. it shouldn't have a SCH stance and a WHM stance, that's weird.

Then what do you suggest? There's already a WHM and a SCH. Should AST then not be a healer and more of a supportive role?
I don't see the problem being a bit of both. The issue now is that SCH was OP before. Lot's of DPS, more than decent healing, afk mode (Fairy), and now they tried to somehow 'balance' that by nerfing the fairy, the shields, the dps... Not saying I am against a rework, just saying you shouldn't go nerf one job because 'it takes less development time'.

[Reilyn]

Then what do you suggest? There's already a WHM and a SCH. Should AST then not be a healer and more of a supportive role?
I don't see the problem being a bit of both.

AST has COPIES of other healer's basic tools, but better in multiple cases, AND brings buffs to the party neither healer competes with at all. If you don't see a problem, you might be blind. This is ironically the problem they wanted to avoid when AST came out in 3.0 which is why AST potencies were lower across the board back then.

A simple suggestion would be make it so at least SCHs are better in the shielding role they are stuck in than the healer that can shift in and out of that role on a whim out of combat, or completely change AST's healing kit to something a bit more original than 'I have your spells, but better in x, y, and z ways'

Right now, SCH has an identity crisis outside of its OGCD healing in actual practice (while being inferior in almost every other category), and a major part of why they still have relevance is the fact AST cards don't stack, and SCH at least helps group dps more than a WHM. If AST cards DID stack, well they may as well be the only healing job in the game at that point, and it's sad that technicality is the only thing stopping that. The combo is still very workable with communication of who has what cards and when since the new job specific UI elements ironically makes it harder to coordinate that without talking.

While they're at it, WHM may need some sort of party dps buff, because they've been facing the problem of being benched for years because their AOE, and powerhealing tends to be overkill outside of the odd solo-healer strats for something on farm.

Oddly enough, if they were to revert all of the heal potency buffs they gave AST since 3.0, but kept the mechanic changes they gave to the card system, lightspeed, etc the same, AST would still be a preferred healer to choose over WHM because of AOE 10% balance, and enough healing.

I'm referring to their 3.0 versions - Synastry was basically the same as it is now in Stormblood (no healing % buff), and Lightspeed during 3.0 also reduced your HEALING magic potency during its effect, not just DPS. Both moves received hefty buffs in 3.2.

My overarching point was more that I hate seeing people use the term "crappy AST healing" in regards to its launch status without providing any context whatsoever. AST's problem wasn't just "weak heals" - those were actually only 5% lower in the highest case than their WHM/SCH counterparts - it was crappy cooldowns and less control over procuring AOE Balance that made it shunned for Gordias. The devs didn't seem to understand the problem, so they just buffed all those aspects, and now AST is the problematic powerhouse it is today.

Exactly. Back then:

Balance was 10%
Shuffle could give you the same card again.
Shuffle had at least a minute long CD, if not, longer.
Spread had at least a 90 second CD, if not, longer.
Some cards had a shorter duration than they do now.

(yes, yes, i know its been renamed 'redraw'. I call it shuffle out of habit from when I suffered through playing 3.0 AST before I thankfully dropped it before burning tomes on their AF in gordias)

Back then, SCH's Selene was actually better at buffering the party dps on a consistent basis than the ASTs card system which was why I dropped AST early in 3.0 and went back to SCH. I'm not joking, or exaggerating when I say Selene was better at buffing the party damage than ASTs. That is why ASTs got benched.

For a time, it was weaker healing, and a terribly inconsistent buffing system that a damn fairy could outdo that didn't make up for it.
Now it's stronger in both categories at the same time.
It should be one or the other.

If AST's card system was as good as it is now back in Gordias with lower healing potencies, I would put money on WHM warming the bench.

So no, AST healing potencies don't need to be as high as they are relative to the other healers. Their card system is just that strong now. WHM needs to bring something more to the table.

[PharisHanasaki]

AST has COPIES of other healer's basic tools, but better in multiple cases, AND brings buffs to the party neither healer competes with at all. If you don't see a problem, you might be blind. This is ironically the problem they wanted to avoid when AST came out in 3.0 which is why AST potencies were lower across the board back then.

Oh, but I wasn't talking about potencies, or buffs or anything of the sort. The post I quoted talked about stances and how it was weird for AST to have a WHM stance and a SCH stance. DESIGN wise I don't see the problem. Then again, it could have been completely different, but what can you do, it's a healing class so it obviously needs healing of some kind, WHM being the standard.

If you remember SCH shields were far better than AST's in 3.0 as was WHM's healing. Even the buffs didn't save AST from being kicked from raiding. I'm thinking it could be in part due to people sticking with the old and known. SCH brought dps and shields, WHM did all the healing with some decent DPS. AST could neither DPS, shield or heal better than the other 2 jobs. And the buffs were so minimal (5% in AoE) that no one even considered them to be game changing.

SCH was definitely OP. Their heals were good, their DPS godly for a healing class, aetherflow gave instant MP and was not a refresh buff.

And AST buffs are hard to plan unless your co-healer is smart. They were hard to plan BEFORE they removed them from the party list, as other AST wouldn't even bother to look at the party before replacing an AOE balance with TP (for real this happened to me more than once, and one time the other AST even had the nerve to say 'We didn't need your buff anyways did we?'). So it's even harder now that you have no idea what the other AST has down in a PUG. I think they're supposed to re-add them, but again, it didn't help much before.

I'm not sure if I can call the recent changes much of a nerf, but the Balance card is probably the top one buff so in that regards it was.

I repeat, I'm not against a rework. But DESIGN wise I don't see a problem with being a versatile role, who can work with either WHM or SCH on a party.