Originally Posted by SnugglesD

And you also raided Gordias where SMN was meta, so your point about e4e is nothing new.

And what does this have to do with them handing it to AST? Why are you bringing up SMN? Damage mitigation tools were redistributed, and at the very least AST broke even.

Originally Posted by SnugglesD

OK. Lucid dreaming make your points about MP costs wrong. Broil II potency balances out losing bio and makes that point wrong.

I talked specifically about AOE.

Originally Posted by Reilyn

-AST now has better AOE damage than SCH with how badly they nerfed bane, removing one of their dots that would have been spread by bane, the removal of blizzard 2, and miasma 2 (which I guess they're going to give back, but it was only 20 potency aoe, with a 10 potency DOT, so it won't do nearly enough to replace everything they axed)

Broil 2 doesnt balance out the potency loss on AOE dps. I'm not even mentioning the fact Bane drops DOT potency by 80% after 5 targets. If you actually read my post, you wouldn't have this problem.

Originally Posted by Miste

If you are going to compare two jobs you need to compare their whole toolkit. You left out A LOT of stuff in your comparison post so it just doesn't hold much weight like that. (for example you completely ignored that SCH has a fairy with healing buffs and extra heals that AST doesn't) So there is just extra things you have to math into that you left out to compare properly.

Didnt count the fairy embrace heals (who was nerfed again) for a specific reason:

SCH doesn't have Benefic2/Cure2. I didn't think I'd have to explain this to people at this point. Embrace is there to sort of make up for the fact SCHs don't have those at all, when the other two healers have cure2/benefic2 with access to possibly full-uptime regens ON TOP OF IT.

Now do you see why I didn't bother mentioning the fairy embrace?

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...rom_a_midcore/

I have gotten a lot of 'why take a scholar when we can just take an astro and get buffs and better shields?'. Please don't be that person, you guys.

Originally Posted by Miste

Keeping Balance on 60-70% of the fight is pretty much not possible for any fight above 8 minutes. So you actually cannot teach me how.

I mean you have a chance to win the lottery even though it is really really low chance, but claiming AST can keep balance on 60-70% of a 10 minute fight is about the same as saying "oh I lost my job and I\\'m gonna be homeless soon, no problem, I\\'ll just win the lottery, I don\\'t need to try to get a job."

Maybe for dungeon bosses....but those are dungeon bosses it is the most casual of casual content and matters little when it comes to job balance.

To be fair I was thinking bosses were only around 8min long (maybe cuz of all those balances) but you said it\\'s 10min. so
5-6 balances is 2:30-3min and that\\'s not counting the AT least 2 celestials(probably 3 tbh) so thats a extra 3 sec at most so that\\'s 3:20 or 3:30 sec of aoe balance and in 10min that\\'s 35% of the fight? Somthing like that.

Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

You mean those 2 laughbly easy raids that even the most casual player could clear, my child? oh, i did not realize, Not to mention BEFORE SB updates as well, in other words LAST raid tier content before class overhauls.

Creator was almost not even raid content due to how easy it was, Never said i didn't clear it, but you of course won't know that. Looks like the one who can't read is you.

Like i said, when some "real" content presents it self, you'll see the error of your ways.

Bottomline, you're dead wrong about noct stance, but that is something an AST who knows what they are doing would be aware of. I'm sorry.

Lmao you are so funny, a8s easy? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHA yes especially for ast now I know you are a complete casual nubbin. Stop saying shit, man. that's embarrassing

Originally Posted by Reilyn

Didnt count the fairy embrace heals (who was nerfed again) for a specific reason:

SCH doesn't have Benefic2/Cure2. I didn't think I'd have to explain this to people at this point. Embrace is there to sort of make up for the fact SCHs don't have those at all, when the other two healers have cure2/benefic2 with access to possibly full-uptime regens ON TOP OF IT.

Now do you see why I didn't bother mentioning the fairy embrace?

SCH has Emergency Tactics + Adlo every 30 seconds (soon to be 20 seconds)
SCH has Lustrate which is instant and can be used three times every minute
SCH also has fairy heals with healing buffs like illumination and and whispering dawn which is a powerful HoT.
Excog every minute
Fey Union

Missing Cure II/Benefic II doesn't seem like it would hurt them imo.

Not to say SCH doesn't need some buffs...I feel like SCH spells cost too much MP compared to the other two healers.

My boyfriend and I were talking about SCH since he mains it and we were thinking like Emergency Tactics should lower the MP cost of the next spell also when used.

For example AST Helios costs 1440 MP for a direct AoE heal of 300 potency.
SCH Emergency Tactics + Succor 300 potency direct AoE heal, but it costs 2280 MP.

So since Emergency removes the shield aspect there is definitely no reason for the MP cost to be that high.

Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

The number of DPS outweigh healers and tank, they can't just fix that, unless everyone goes to tank and healer instead. Or quits the game. How do you suppose they fix such a thing when player numbers are the cause?

The only other way is a very expensive process of adding way more slots in the data centers. But that still won't fix the number of DPS users vs other roles. and since DPS attract newer and players that don't like responsibility it's going to continue to be higher.

maybe they should look at how other mmo's solved the problem. There lots of ways to fix the problem. Sounds like you haven't played many mmo's other than this one or you know how they could fix it.

Originally Posted by Miste

SCH has Emergency Tactics + Adlo every 30 seconds (soon to be 20 seconds)
SCH has Lustrate which is instant and can be used three times every minute
SCH also has fairy heals with healing buffs like illumination and and whispering dawn which is a powerful HoT.
Excog every minute
Fey Union

Missing Cure II/Benefic II doesn't seem like it would hurt them imo.

-E-tactics isn't a good substitute for cure2. It's one of two methods for SCH to have an AOE heal with the potency of WHM, and AST's at all, and has a cooldown.
-Already mentioned lustrate as one of the very few meaningful advantages SCH has over AST. You're repeating what I'm saying.
-A powerful AOE hot for 21 seconds once every minute tied to a specific fairy, which means giving up selene's 3% atk speed buff for the party to make SCH AOE healing slightly better (but still not as good as the others, and very likely to overheal for much of its duration)
-Excog is lustrate with 50 more potency, and costs an aetherflow stack just like lustrate at the moment. Until it gets a meaningful buff, you quite literally won't miss it if it were gone tomorrow
-Fey union currently has a range problem, potency problem, and delay problem

Summary:
SCH has less strengths over AST than what you listed. SCH's selling point in it's identity IN ACTUAL PRACTICE is mostly in its OGCD healing for 600-650 potency.
Shielding, non-cooldown dependent AOE healing, AOE dps, buffering raid damage... AST does all of that better than SCH, and we all know it at this point.
Again, this is why I don't bother making a huge list of all the unique little tools SCH has, because it still boils down to not excelling in much of anything over AST outside of OGCD healing IN PRACTICE.

You still end with a healer deficient in almost every meaningful category for their role compared to AST outside of OGCD healing.

SCH isn't unplayable, but there isn't enough reason to bother playing it when you could go nocturnal AST. This is the same problem AST was faced with in gordias savage, and I've been making much the same complaints back then: AST had unique tools back then too, but it didn't amount to enough for people to really want them over WHM or SCH because WHM/SCH did it better.

Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

What OTHER successful MMOs do you speak of! this is the only one aside FFXI and WoW that are even worth mentioning, Most MMOs are F2P trash that gate everything behind paywalls and die quickly.

14 is probably the only one worth playing right now, so you are right, i do stay away from other MMOs, because they are garbage.

Oh lord. Shh.

My issue with SCH right now is the fact that our Adlo and Succor spells even HAD to get another chunk of MP tossed onto them to cast. Why does my Single Target Adlo cost as much as a Group Target Aspected Helios? Succor at 70 costs 2280 MP for crying out loud. If you don't want to see Ast nerfed thats fine, but SCH needs to be fixed in that case. With Aetherflow giving back less MP it's kind of a dick move to increase our costs on the two spells that we're supposed to be known for. And I've done the math, Succor and a Noct Aspected Helios have the same cure potency; 150.

However Aspected Helios has a 150% boost, while Succor is just a flat 100% shield. Also add in the fact that Noct stance boosts your healing potency by 15% that means that 150 cure potency is more like 172 cure potency. So why is it that it costs much LESS than Succor when it outright defeats it? Sch was also supposed to be the damage mitigation class, which it still is and all... but it makes no sense that AST's group barrier knocks SCH's out of the park like that. And before you say 'Emergency Tactics' in regards to Succor, that still only makes it as good as... a normal Helios. So either AST barriers need to take a hit, or SCH's need to be fixed really, but that is just my two cents on the matter.