Possible AST nerf

[chesnaught]

I don't mind that AST shields are stronger than a non crit SCH adloquium. SCH has a constant source of MP-free, stack-free, gcd-free healing in their fairy on top of their GCD heals. An AST in nocturnal sect doesn't have nearly as many off-GCD healing options let alone a fairy doing a lot of work on top of their GCDs.

[Ootarion]

I don't mind that AST shields are stronger than a non crit SCH adloquium. SCH has a constant source of MP-free, stack-free, gcd-free healing in their fairy on top of their GCD heals. An AST in nocturnal sect doesn't have nearly as many off-GCD healing options let alone a fairy doing a lot of work on top of their GCDs.

THANK YOU Chesnaught!

[Eloah]

I don't mind that AST shields are stronger than a non crit SCH adloquium. SCH has a constant source of MP-free, stack-free, gcd-free healing in their fairy on top of their GCD heals. An AST in nocturnal sect doesn't have nearly as many off-GCD healing options let alone a fairy doing a lot of work on top of their GCDs.

This is not a thing and i wish people would stop using it as the end all beat all of why SCH should get a nerf or excuses like that. The Fairy is part of our kit thats it. You know what isnt part of our kit, Cure 2/Benefic 2 or Medica/Helios, spammable big heals that heal for a lot more and cost a lot less than our two "similar" spells that heal for a lot less and cost way more... the fairy is just our utility to offset the lack of those kinds of skills. No one is denying that the fairy needs to be factored into the healing formula, but she isn't some devine cheat code. I should notice if she is helping me, right now you don't notice her as much as we should. Hopefully 4.05 will change that.

[Ootarion]

This is not a thing and i wish people would stop using it as the end all beat all of why SCH should get a nerf or excuses like that. The Fairy is part of our kit thats it. You know what isnt part of our kit, Cure 2/Benefic 2 or Medica/Helios, spammable big heals that heal for a lot more and cost a lot less than our two "similar" spells that heal for a lot less and cost way more... the fairy is just our utility to offset the lack of those kinds of skills. No one is denying that the fairy needs to be factored into the healing formula, but she isn't some devine cheat code. I should notice if she is helping me, right now you don't notice her as much as we should. Hopefully 4.05 will change that.

No one is denying that when it comes to healing that SCH isnt up there with WHM and AST in terms of brute force healing, however, when ive compared the numbers, a SCH using Physick or even Adlo, combined with their Fairy's primary heal, can actually achieve a 650 potency, or when you combine Lustrate with the Fairy's heal, that is a combined total of 900 potency worth of healing. That is nothing to sniff at....

[chesnaught]

This is not a thing and i wish people would stop using it as the end all beat all of why SCH should get a nerf or excuses like that. The Fairy is part of our kit thats it. You know what isnt part of our kit, Cure 2/Benefic 2 or Medica/Helios, spammable big heals that heal for a lot more and cost a lot less than our two "similar" spells that heal for a lot less and cost way more... the fairy is just our utility to offset the lack of those kinds of skills. No one is denying that the fairy needs to be factored into the healing formula, but she isn't some devine cheat code. I should notice if she is helping me, right now you don't notice her as much as we should. Hopefully 4.05 will change that.

I'm really lost if you thought my post said SCH needs to be nerfed.

[Eloah]

No one is denying that when it comes to healing that SCH isnt up there with WHM and AST in terms of brute force healing, however, when ive compared the numbers, a SCH using Physick or even Adlo, combined with their Fairy's primary heal, can actually achieve a 650 potency, or when you combine Lustrate with the Fairy's heal, that is a combined total of 900 potency worth of healing. That is nothing to sniff at....

I hope this doesn't sound presumptuous, but you do realize that your repsonse proves my point?

I'm really lost if you thought my post said SCH needs to be nerfed.

My apologies if you thought I was attacking you in a sense, that was not my intent. But the response from your original post "I don't mind that AST shields are stronger than a non crit SCH adloquium. SCH has a constant source of MP-free, stack-free, gcd-free healing in their fairy on top of their GCD heals." is a little misguided. Many people want to point to the fairy as a reason why it's okay for a SCH to not have what other healers have, and to a degree that is fine, but point to the right thing, which many people do not. The fairy isn't comparable to the shields as you indicated, she is the SCH's answer for the larger heals that WHM and AST has complete access to. So a better analogy is "I don't mind that AST's Benefic II costs less MP or that WHM Cure II is a stronger heal. SCH has a constant source of MP-free, stack-free, gcd-free healing in their fairy on top of their GCD heals."

The Shield debate that is going on right now is because SCH's niche/gimmick/playstyle/thing/etc is Shields so they should have the "best ones" and the most options, Right now AST is beating them in every step. Now I am not stating that AST needs a nerf to their shields, per se, but the shields should be comparable at least. A lower MP Cost for the shield spells, a trait to make Adlo Crit or be instant cast, an increased potency or shield percentage, any one of these would help to make SCH feel more like the mitigation healer again. That's not even mentioning that SCHs themselves, me included, have been asking for more shield options and abilities, if we got an instant cast shield that was like 25% of our max MP, or if Selene got an AoE shield skill, even a buff to Sacred Soil or a reduced CD time for Deployment Tactics would do wonders. Hell Dissipation needs a revamp, they could even make that into an AoE shield for like 25% of our max HP, but make it use the fey gauge like 50 points or so, i'd say reduce the GC to 90 seconds at least though.

But Ultimately, the main issue is that, if SCH is supposed to be the Mitigation healer, why do we have the worst mitigation tools over the Buff healer, who can swap between Regeneration healing and Mitigation healing, on top of their Buffs which includes a buff for mitigating damage?

A good example is, that some people are asking for Selene to get an increase to her Fey Wind skill, which I can see why that is a thing. I personally don't mind if it gets an increase or not, since Fey Wind is a Buff, and I am not the Buff healer. I don't need all of my skills to be on par with the other healers, I just need the skills that are supposed to be my thing, in this case shields, to be better than the other healers.

[simiii]

If they nerf the shielding strength of Aspected Benefic and Aspected Helios, I swear I will not play AST anymore. I was growing sick of having to rely on Diurnal before SBs launch because Nocturnal shielding was just awful. AST is fine where it is and I even swap between Diurnal and Nocturnal as needed, please dont nerf my class D:

People like you is why everyone hates ast right now.
*don't nerf balance it's not op!
*don't nerf shields they are fine
* dont nerf heals I'll be worthless!
what can they nerf?

[MoroMurasaki]

People like you is why everyone hates ast right now.
*don't nerf balance it's not op!
*don't nerf shields they are fine
* dont nerf heals I'll be worthless!
what can they nerf?

If there was any way for me to like/upvote this more I would. Thank you!

[Ootarion]

People like you is why everyone hates ast right now.
*don't nerf balance it's not op!
*don't nerf shields they are fine
* dont nerf heals I'll be worthless!
what can they nerf?

What can they nerf? Nothing needs to be nerfed about AST, why are you wanting them to be nerfed so badly? You sit there and judge me, when you are not even giving your reason. Are you really going to sit there and ignore the fact that Nocturnal was worthless before and is apparently from what im hearing, even worthless now? I have heard people say that you shouldnt even use Nocturnal right now, which means that its shields are not all that useful, but I hear people saying that AST outshines SCH at shielding? Either AST outshines SCH at shielding, or they are on par and honestly Ive seen them as being on par.

You havent even given a reason that explains your stance on balancing of AST so what gives you the right to accuse me as being one of the people who cause all this AST hate? Contrary to what you think of me (which you know nothing of me) I am only being so adamant about this because I only want to see fair balancing that is all.

[Katryn]

Whether devs or general players like it or not, everything boils down to the meta. And the meta reads: dps + utility = viability. HPS isn't even a factor really. Why? Because it stands to reason that every healer and encounter must be viable in this regard, otherwise the game would end up completely broken. As long as there are people pushing the meta, there will always be classes in each role that are more or less valued based on what they bring to the table and what the fight to be completed actually needs.

Ast's cards are the highest level of utility possible on a healer. Unless the devs actually break the class's healing capabilities (from what I've read AST healing was dead on arrival in 3.0--that's why buffs started in the first place.), which would not be a solution to anything, AST will always be the most desirable healer to bring long term because they can help make things get cleared faster. A WHM can provide more safety and stability during progression, and I'm not quite sure what SCH brings to the table. But AST has balance and in the viability / desirability formula that's basically a remote with fast forward. Relax: you will survive.