Possible AST nerf

[loreleidiangelo]

I remember how AST was released with worse healing and personal DPS than either of the other two healers because of their group utility. The result was that no one used them and they had to keep being buffed throughout the majority of Heavensward.

It's kinda like everyone forgets that Bałance wasn't as good as it is now, that Redraw could give you the same card and was on a two-minute cooldown, and that Spread was on like a three-minute cooldown too!

Can we maybe accept that if AST's AOE Balance had the same power and ease of aquisition that it does now that MAYBE groups would have magically learned to live with the lower healing? Don't get me wrong, Lightspeed and Disable were stupidly ineffectual and I'm glad they got changed. I'm glad Synastry became a throughput buff too. But did ASTs REALLY need the buffed Lumi Aether, the better Soil-Asylum hybrid AND the buffed potencies to their basic heals? Benefic was only 20 potency less than Cure, a 5% healing downgrade. FIVE PERCENT, in a game where healing requirements are already laughably lax. I guarantee that if those few targeted areas had been buffed (card QoL, adding throughput to Synastry, fixing Disable and Lightspeed) that no one would have given a crap about AST's "lower heals".

tl;dr AST's problem at launch wasn't just "weaker healing", it was stupidly punitive abilities like Lightspeed and Disable, and much lower odds of AOEing a Balance than we have now that made it undesirable at launch. Its healing could easily get the bat now and groups would still take it for Balance, even if they took WHM/SCH for initial clears/prog.

[TankHunter678]

I'm glad Synastry became a throughput buff too.

I personally hate that they split Synastry into 2 90 sec cooldowns. So I basically have to burn 2 cooldowns for the same effect back in HW I got with 1 cooldown. Also I liked HW Lightspeed because of Stoneskin. Now I rarely use it unless its for healer checks like Akh Morn.

[loreleidiangelo]

I personally hate that they split Synastry into 2 90 sec cooldowns. So I basically have to burn 2 cooldowns for the same effect back in HW I got with 1 cooldown. Also I liked HW Lightspeed because of Stoneskin. Now I rarely use it unless its for healer checks like Akh Morn.

I'm referring to their 3.0 versions - Synastry was basically the same as it is now in Stormblood (no healing % buff), and Lightspeed during 3.0 also reduced your HEALING magic potency during its effect, not just DPS. Both moves received hefty buffs in 3.2.

My overarching point was more that I hate seeing people use the term "crappy AST healing" in regards to its launch status without providing any context whatsoever. AST's problem wasn't just "weak heals" - those were actually only 5% lower in the highest case than their WHM/SCH counterparts - it was crappy cooldowns and less control over procuring AOE Balance that made it shunned for Gordias. The devs didn't seem to understand the problem, so they just buffed all those aspects, and now AST is the problematic powerhouse it is today.

[TankHunter678]

WHM is not doing that badly, in fact the healer comp I would want is WHM/AST instead of AST/AST or AST/SCH. Why? Because WHM does the highest damage for a healer. Now imagine them with the Balance buff on them. Then they do massive damage (for a healer) making WHM utility come in through their damage output, healing output, and ability to save people from mistakes.

The problem healer right now, the one that needs the most help, is SCH. Nerfing AST wont help SCH when people would still bring AST over SCH unless you nerfed AST to the point they are basically do not offer anything of value. So just buff SCH up to be consistently comparable in value to the others.

Also the only way to truly make AST OP would be to give them the ability to draw the card they want every time. Where if I hit draw I pull all 6 cards and can choose which cards I want to spread and royal road.

[Atmora]

WHM is not doing that badly, in fact the healer comp I would want is WHM/AST instead of AST/AST or AST/SCH. Why? Because WHM does the highest damage for a healer. Now imagine them with the Balance buff on them. Then they do massive damage (for a healer) making WHM utility come in through their damage output, healing output, and ability to save people from mistakes.

SCH is actually just straight up higher raidwide than WHM if both healers optimize correctly. If you're going for an ideal comp WHM is out.

[TankHunter678]

SCH is actually just straight up higher raidwide than WHM if both healers optimize correctly. If you're going for an ideal comp WHM is out.

My experience thus far in this expansion is SCHs have been a letdown more often then not, I kinda have a hard time seeing them better in raids compared to WHM other then the fact they use mostly dots for damage and thus do not lose much damage output from moving. But with how fast the fairy goes down to raid AoE it puts much more strain on the co-healer to keep everyone alive.

So yeah, thats basically the foundation of that thought, clear far more easily with AST/WHM then any other combo.

[Atmora]

snip

SCH has more OGCD healing than either healer, that's their main strength. Basically when you expend less GCDs on healing both healers gain DPS and the dps from both combined adds up to more raid wide than a WHMs personal DPS advantage. Nothing in this games requires all of WHMs healing, so SCHs lesser healing requiring less GCDs is better.

[loreleidiangelo]

I think that if you buff SCH to any meaningful degree, WHM loses their seat at the raid table once again. The question in progression raiding is ALWAYS going to be "what healer do we want to bring with our AST?" when Balance is as strong as it is and the job doesn't suffer significantly in other areas.

Remember, aside from Assize, every second a WHM is DPSing is one they're not healing. (Don't be pedantic, I'm aware regens exist, but AST has those too and they're fairly similar in strength.) AOE Balance doesn't have that limitation. If Omega Savage has high periods of frequent single-target or AOE damage then WHM's superior personal DPS drops off quite a bit in value because they have to spend GCDs to heal rather than DPS, whereas Balance only sees reduction re: the AST's DPS loss. Every other non-healer player will be continuing to benefit from that effect no matter WHAT the healer is busy doing in the raid.

[TankHunter678]

I think that if you buff SCH to any meaningful degree, WHM loses their seat at the raid table once again. The question in progression raiding is ALWAYS going to be "what healer do we want to bring with our AST?" when Balance is as strong as it is and the job doesn't suffer significantly in other areas.

And if you were to nerf balance and buff SCH to where it should be then the problem becomes "Why should we bring AST?" Which isn't that one of the reasons why they buffed it to begin with?

They would basically have to rework ASTs card system in order to make the cards desirable, either that or just straight buff AST healing and DPS to make them desirable and boot WHM and SCH out of their spots in the process.

[NocturniaUzuki]

Hey SQEX, you might want to add an edit function for the mobile version of the forums, since, y'know, we can't actually write anything more than a couple characters without editing posts. Or you could just fix that.
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Now then...

I'd rather see WHM and especially SCH buffed to match AST (by becoming better than AST at their respectively specialties). Alternatively, a combination of buffs for SCH and WHM and a minor AST nerf would be fine. I'd really rather a nerf to AST be to its cards (like reducing the effects of Balance) than to its shield potential. AST is, in some cases, the only class capable of managing intense situations in challenge runs (in my opinion, based on experience, at least). And that ability mainly relies on its shields, especially Aspected Benefic. Shields are virtually never actually needed in standard content unless your party SERIOUSLY messes up. Where it is genuinely necessary is in specialized runs like synced undersized runs (to survive shared damage that would otherwise be impossible to survive, to survive multi-hit tank busters that are meant to be shared, etc) or perhaps a few minIL situations. To nerf Aspected Benefic could cause those fights to become literally impossible at worst, or ridiculously hard at best.

AST has the best ability to fix major mistakes and recover from seemingly impossible situations, if played to its fullest. I think SCH and WHM should equal that capability in the right hands. Right now, their kits are a bit limited in that regard, especially in mana management. SCH has it the worst with its reliance on Aetherflow to do anything useful whatsoever. Even in standard content, SCH is generally best used in an off-healer slot because it can't be overusing its Aether stacks. Throw it into an intense solo healing situation where it has to use its Aether-reliant skills almost constantly just to keep the party alive through the minimum damage output of the boss and it becomes impossible. Hence, I shudder to try any challenge runs that are too healing intensive with SCH.