Possible AST nerf

[Enla]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the main outlier SCH because of how bad it is?

It's not necessarily that it's bad, though the potency disparity is nothing to sneeze at if you look at the compiled logs on various fansites. We can do the job, but our window for error is so minuscule that one single mistake can cost the party dearly. SCH has always been the class to play if you're the kind of person who memorizes fights, and in that capacity some of their old usefulness does still continue to shine. However we cannot main heal to save our lives, so while we can keep everyone /up/ that doesn't necessarily mean it'll always be at full health. Even then however the reward for learning the best times to pop skills is negligible compared to what the other healers can experience. Leading many SCH main's to wonder why it's even worth it to put in three times the effort for lesser returns.

With that said however, what WHM still lags very far behind AST in sheer terms of versatility and utility in spite of far outstripping SCH at the moment. So while it's in a /better/ spot, it still needs adjustments for optimal balance with AST.

[Miste]

AST right now just steps all over the other healers.

I don't see groups discriminating against WHM or SCH on my DC.

I see PFs daily looking for all the healers for raid statics; WHM and SCH, SCH and AST, WHM and AST. All of them.

Not many groups seem to be excluding WHM or SCH at all unless they already have one in their static and they don't want to stack the same healer job. Some groups might but it seems to be the minority since I haven't seen one specifically say "NO WHMs" or one that didn't have a WHM and specifically said the other healer has to be AST only.

Not to say it doesn't happen, but obviously there are a lot of other statics to choose from if the group doesn't want what job you play. I mean DPS have it worse there are only 4 spots in a static for DPS but there are 9 DPS jobs to fill them.

I see lots of statics seeking WHMs and SCHs equally with ASTs. So I don't know about this whole AST is destroying both the other healers thing. I just don't see actual evidence of this happening even remotely frequently in-game.

this group was hosted by a WHM so they wanted AST or SCH as the second healer

^these only a few screenshots from two different days that I looked. Plenty more if I had kept looking at all hours etc.

In-game it seems people are just playing whichever healer they enjoy playing and plenty of raid statics available for whichever healer they pick. On the forums it seems is where apparently AST is the only healer that exists and is somehow "stepping all over the other healers."

Now this is not saying I'm against nerfs/buffs, before anyone decides to attack me for this post for daring to even slightly defend AST or for pointing out that WHMs and SCHs seem to be just as accepted and wanted by groups. This is just what I see in-game and that there might be a bit of an over exaggeration on the forums about this whole "AST stole our jerbs" thing.

Unfortunately unless we homogenize all the healers to be exact carbon copies of each other (same abilities, same spells, same everything except maybe different animations) then there will always be some imbalance. To make WHM, AST, and SCH all play differently means there will always be some gap between them and the main thing is that each healer needs to be able to hold their own at their primary role which for healers is healing. SCH getting some buffs due to their healing being a little low so that is good, but I assure you WHM can heal and heal powerfully and they also have the highest healer DPS and best MP management.

Simple fact is no content in the game requires AST cards to beat it and there never will be content like that. So if the only way to make WHMs and SCHs happy is to nerf the balance card back to 10% then I guess do it, but really it changes almost nothing. ASTs, WHMs, and SCHs will all still be accepted and taken into statics like above since they can all clear the content together...which is the same as it is now.

[technole]

SCH is anything but bad, it's actually still part of the meta comp. It's just not as fun to play outside of raid/extreme primals content. The buffs upcoming will likely address the clunkiness of the new skills and it's snoozer of AoE DPS. The cost-benefit of skills ratio compared to Astro is what got some people going crazy. Noct Astro needs to have more potent shields because they don't have any access to regen, no shield deploy, nor does it have any free mitigation debuffs from Eos.

Regardless, AST/SCH is once again going to be the optimal raid combo. You have to remember every other tandem that doesn't include SCH has to always "manually" heal. You can talk shields all you want but a Noct Astro doesn't bring a free healer that flies around and has really good cooldowns that don't cost anything. A brilliant strategist will take full advantage of them, every fight, and put good damage on-the-board which also helps the other healer not have to heal as much.

[Chessala]

I haven't read past page 5 (the OPs stupid replies made the reading very tidious) but here are my 2 cents.

The 3 healers desperately need to be balanced among each other, these are the roles as I see them:
WHM - The power healer. Strongest single and AoE heals - straight forward
SCH - Shield and DPS healer. Their heals are viable but obviously weaker than a whm. Instead, they focus on lowering incoming damage on the party and provide a decent DPS output.
AST - Utilities of both healers PLUS focus on party buffs. Their shields should be weaker than SCH and their heals weaker/less varied than the WHM

As it currently is, AST vastly outshines SCH and their single heals should be returned to the potency they used to have. They were fine at the end of HW. Actually, at the end of HW, the healers were finally pretty much in tune.
Now, since healing can't be buffed indefinitely, AST will have to take some nerfs, especially to their shields. If OP found them useless, they didn't know how to utilize them properly.

WHM is in a decent spot atm but the Lily system and Planary Indugency need some tweaking. Especially the later is useless the way it is now. I would gladly dump the new shield to get Stoneskin back. The removal was ridiculous and uncalled for (much like sustain and Misama II).

Also, OP mentioned WHM has better mana management than AST? How? Please explain to me how having a card that you can have at your disposal to keep your mana ticking up does not make for better mana management? Yes, thin air is very powerful but I still think the potential mana management on AST is way easier than on whm because big heals also take big MP (and no, you can't spam thin air).

I have played all 3 healers throughout HW and WHM will always remain my main. Right now, I refuse to jump on the AST bandwagon because of it being OP and I can't get myself to play a currently broken class.

To OP: AST will have to take some nerfs and the other healers need buffs/changes. Live with it and stop being a baby.

Note: I don't give a crap if whm has the highest dmg output! \o/

[Maero]

Honestly Ast is rather OP but just buff other jobs especially sch.
People that cry nerf all the time do not understand the underlying issues of the other jobs

[Verdan]

Nah Ast is OP. It's one of the clearer(if not the clearest) overtuned classes in Stormblood.

[Waliel]

stuff that bounces between players

I would give up my left buttocks for Prayer of Mending. Actually, give me WotLK era disc Priest, and I'd probably give up playing BLM this instant.

[Naunet]

I would give up my left buttocks for Prayer of Mending. Actually, give me WotLK era disc Priest, and I'd probably give up playing BLM this instant.

Oh man, I miss Wrath disc so much. xD (Though I loved Cata and early MoP disc too.)

But yeah, when I said that, I was thinking something akin to PoM or even Chain Heal. A ripple effect could also be neat, where you place a star on someone and it expires/you detonate it, it also bounces to other players nearby.

My most fervent wish is for a remake of this job already come 5.0. The card system sans the OP-ness of Balance is a great system with decent versatility, decision-making, and flow, and I'd prefer not to have that gutted in any way. Just let it contribute to healing in a different way and then players can make the choice about whether AST's heals fit in with their comp enough to make it worth the card buffs, or if WHM and SCH healing work better with the encounter or group design.

I agree! It needs to be distinguished COMPLETELY from WHM and SCH, not just "a little of one, some of the other".

[Aomine1992]

If devs start going around with a buffing stick every time theres a balance issue well eventually reach a problem with power creep, with super high number and a super high gap between jobs.

Lol well the issue with balancing is that the other healers should be where AST is now, especially SCH, WHM needs some minor tweaks on skills But I find it weird that SCH was stepping on healer classes all HW with dps, pretty much the same healing output as a WHM, and OP shields and now its a huge issue because AST is the potent healer this time around which was arguably the worst healer before but party buffs yay :/

But as for nocturnal they could lower the shields a bit but not whole a lot or WHM/AST parties will be kind of dumb like it was before when the shields where out right terrible, But yea nerfing one will not fix any of these issues

[Daralii]

Lol well the issue with balancing is that the other healers should be where AST is now, especially SCH, WHM needs some minor tweaks on skills But I find it weird that SCH was stepping on healer classes all HW with dps, pretty much the same healing output as a WHM, and OP shields and now its a huge issue because AST is the potent healer this time around which was arguably the worst healer before but party buffs yay :/

But as for nocturnal they could lower the shields a bit but not whole a lot or WHM/AST parties will be kind of dumb like it was before when the shields where out right terrible, But yea nerfing one will not fix any of these issues

I remember how AST was released with worse healing and personal DPS than either of the other two healers because of their group utility. The result was that no one used them and they had to keep being buffed throughout the majority of Heavensward.