Possible AST nerf

[Exiled_Tonberry]

If devs start going around with a buffing stick every time there's a balance issue we'll eventually reach a problem with power creep, with super high number and a super high gap between jobs.

This, seriously. I know you don't want your favorite job brought down, but if it needs to happen, it needs to happen. And AST right now just steps all over the other healers. The only thing keeping dual AST from being a thing is cards overlapping. That's how bad it is.

We WILL hit another problem by just infinitely buffing everything. SE really needs to stop being afraid of giving jobs nerfs if they need it.

[Daralii]

This, seriously. I know you don't want your favorite job brought down, but if it needs to happen, it needs to happen. And AST right now just steps all over the other healers. The only thing keeping dual AST from being a thing is cards overlapping. That's how bad it is.

We WILL hit another problem by just infinitely buffing everything. SE really needs to stop being afraid of giving jobs nerfs if they need it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the main outlier SCH because of how bad it is?

[Enla]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the main outlier SCH because of how bad it is?

It's not necessarily that it's bad, though the potency disparity is nothing to sneeze at if you look at the compiled logs on various fansites. We can do the job, but our window for error is so minuscule that one single mistake can cost the party dearly. SCH has always been the class to play if you're the kind of person who memorizes fights, and in that capacity some of their old usefulness does still continue to shine. However we cannot main heal to save our lives, so while we can keep everyone /up/ that doesn't necessarily mean it'll always be at full health. Even then however the reward for learning the best times to pop skills is negligible compared to what the other healers can experience. Leading many SCH main's to wonder why it's even worth it to put in three times the effort for lesser returns.

With that said however, what WHM still lags very far behind AST in sheer terms of versatility and utility in spite of far outstripping SCH at the moment. So while it's in a /better/ spot, it still needs adjustments for optimal balance with AST.

[Miste]

AST right now just steps all over the other healers.

I don't see groups discriminating against WHM or SCH on my DC.

I see PFs daily looking for all the healers for raid statics; WHM and SCH, SCH and AST, WHM and AST. All of them.

Not many groups seem to be excluding WHM or SCH at all unless they already have one in their static and they don't want to stack the same healer job. Some groups might but it seems to be the minority since I haven't seen one specifically say "NO WHMs" or one that didn't have a WHM and specifically said the other healer has to be AST only.

Not to say it doesn't happen, but obviously there are a lot of other statics to choose from if the group doesn't want what job you play. I mean DPS have it worse there are only 4 spots in a static for DPS but there are 9 DPS jobs to fill them.

I see lots of statics seeking WHMs and SCHs equally with ASTs. So I don't know about this whole AST is destroying both the other healers thing. I just don't see actual evidence of this happening even remotely frequently in-game.

this group was hosted by a WHM so they wanted AST or SCH as the second healer

^these only a few screenshots from two different days that I looked. Plenty more if I had kept looking at all hours etc.

In-game it seems people are just playing whichever healer they enjoy playing and plenty of raid statics available for whichever healer they pick. On the forums it seems is where apparently AST is the only healer that exists and is somehow "stepping all over the other healers."

Now this is not saying I'm against nerfs/buffs, before anyone decides to attack me for this post for daring to even slightly defend AST or for pointing out that WHMs and SCHs seem to be just as accepted and wanted by groups. This is just what I see in-game and that there might be a bit of an over exaggeration on the forums about this whole "AST stole our jerbs" thing.

Unfortunately unless we homogenize all the healers to be exact carbon copies of each other (same abilities, same spells, same everything except maybe different animations) then there will always be some imbalance. To make WHM, AST, and SCH all play differently means there will always be some gap between them and the main thing is that each healer needs to be able to hold their own at their primary role which for healers is healing. SCH getting some buffs due to their healing being a little low so that is good, but I assure you WHM can heal and heal powerfully and they also have the highest healer DPS and best MP management.

Simple fact is no content in the game requires AST cards to beat it and there never will be content like that. So if the only way to make WHMs and SCHs happy is to nerf the balance card back to 10% then I guess do it, but really it changes almost nothing. ASTs, WHMs, and SCHs will all still be accepted and taken into statics like above since they can all clear the content together...which is the same as it is now.

[technole]

SCH is anything but bad, it's actually still part of the meta comp. It's just not as fun to play outside of raid/extreme primals content. The buffs upcoming will likely address the clunkiness of the new skills and it's snoozer of AoE DPS. The cost-benefit of skills ratio compared to Astro is what got some people going crazy. Noct Astro needs to have more potent shields because they don't have any access to regen, no shield deploy, nor does it have any free mitigation debuffs from Eos.

Regardless, AST/SCH is once again going to be the optimal raid combo. You have to remember every other tandem that doesn't include SCH has to always "manually" heal. You can talk shields all you want but a Noct Astro doesn't bring a free healer that flies around and has really good cooldowns that don't cost anything. A brilliant strategist will take full advantage of them, every fight, and put good damage on-the-board which also helps the other healer not have to heal as much.

[Chessala]

I haven't read past page 5 (the OPs stupid replies made the reading very tidious) but here are my 2 cents.

The 3 healers desperately need to be balanced among each other, these are the roles as I see them:
WHM - The power healer. Strongest single and AoE heals - straight forward
SCH - Shield and DPS healer. Their heals are viable but obviously weaker than a whm. Instead, they focus on lowering incoming damage on the party and provide a decent DPS output.
AST - Utilities of both healers PLUS focus on party buffs. Their shields should be weaker than SCH and their heals weaker/less varied than the WHM

As it currently is, AST vastly outshines SCH and their single heals should be returned to the potency they used to have. They were fine at the end of HW. Actually, at the end of HW, the healers were finally pretty much in tune.
Now, since healing can't be buffed indefinitely, AST will have to take some nerfs, especially to their shields. If OP found them useless, they didn't know how to utilize them properly.

WHM is in a decent spot atm but the Lily system and Planary Indugency need some tweaking. Especially the later is useless the way it is now. I would gladly dump the new shield to get Stoneskin back. The removal was ridiculous and uncalled for (much like sustain and Misama II).

Also, OP mentioned WHM has better mana management than AST? How? Please explain to me how having a card that you can have at your disposal to keep your mana ticking up does not make for better mana management? Yes, thin air is very powerful but I still think the potential mana management on AST is way easier than on whm because big heals also take big MP (and no, you can't spam thin air).

I have played all 3 healers throughout HW and WHM will always remain my main. Right now, I refuse to jump on the AST bandwagon because of it being OP and I can't get myself to play a currently broken class.

To OP: AST will have to take some nerfs and the other healers need buffs/changes. Live with it and stop being a baby.

Note: I don't give a crap if whm has the highest dmg output! \o/

[Ceasaria]

As far as the issue with SCH, the buffs coming up is definitely going to elevate them. And that leaves WHM where?

Plenary Indulgence.
I suspect raid utility here, for tuesday.

Wait & see the tweak about lilies too (I am expecting 2 lilies 100% by Cure II, now, Cure I 100% for 1 lilie).

If I'am correct, WHM will shine for sure.


PS : Believe in White Mage !

[Maero]

Honestly Ast is rather OP but just buff other jobs especially sch.
People that cry nerf all the time do not understand the underlying issues of the other jobs

[Skye_]

Ast is not supposed to be able to beat WHM in DPS. It is a PARTY DPS BUFFER. That that 20% from the ENTIRE party and factor that into the Ast personal DPS number and then you have their true DPS effect. Saying WHM is better at DPS is absurd when it's marginally higher than Ast. You should be posting ignorant comments when you don't understand the problem as a whole.

[Verdan]

Nah Ast is OP. It's one of the clearer(if not the clearest) overtuned classes in Stormblood.