Possible AST nerf

[Reilyn]

AST Aspected Benefic regen average 2.8-2.9k tick
WHM Regen average 2.8-2.9k tick
Result: Basically the same

AST aspected benefic has a 200 potency initial heal portion.
WHM regen does not. Seems like you forgotten that?

The potency of diurnal aspected benefic is actually 220 initial, 154 per tick after sect bonus. It does one less tick than regen, but the initial heal more than makes up for it, and AST has the option of using time dialation + celestial opposition every once in a while to increase duration.

Exiled_Tonberry was actually right to say that AST regen is stepping on WHM toes in the regen department. It's close when it comes to medica 2 vs diurnal aspected helios, but AST's regen equivalent is just better than WHM's for the added use of being a passable upfront heal, on top of already beating its total potency, and still having the option to extend its duration.

Don't like to have to do this 'pick apart'-thing, but it just keeps coming.

Noct Astro needs to have more potent shields because they don't have any access to regen

SCH's regen is tied to one fairy, has a 21 second effect with a minute cooldown, and overheals alot. Most of the time in full parties, people don't just wait to let the HOT do the work, which is why things like medica2, and diurnal aspected helios tend to overheal.

If you're counting the fairy embrace heal as a sort of regen, it's there to alleviate the fact SCH doesn't have benefic 2/Cure 2. Mind you, it has been nerfed every expansion release, and it's healing potency is lower than the displayed 250 would have you believe since it's a pet.

no shield deploy

Really? A 2 min CD is an excuse?

nor does it have any free mitigation debuffs from Eos.

It increases each player's magic defense stat on their character sheet by 20% of what it was, and that's the only free mitigation buff Eos gives, which is almost the equivalent of putting on another set of magically-resistant pants. Again, another 2min CD. AST has the option of setting up the bole if you're desperate for mitigation, which would likely be more effective than Fey Covenant anyway.

All of this isn't convincing me that AST's shields are entitled to have a cheaper MP cost, and no cast time in the case nocturnal sect's aspected benefic's on top of superior shielding all the time in nocturnal sect. You're not making a very good case.

[Miste]

AST aspected benefic has a 200 potency initial heal portion.
WHM regen does not. Seems like you forgotten that?

The potency of diurnal aspected benefic is actually 220 initial, 154 per tick after sect bonus. It does one less tick than regen, but the initial heal more than makes up for it, and AST has the option of using time dialation + celestial opposition every once in a while to increase duration.

Exiled_Tonberry was actually right to say that AST regen is stepping on WHM toes in the regen department. It's close when it comes to medica 2 vs diurnal aspected helios, but AST's regen equivalent is just better than WHM's for the added use of being a passable upfront heal, on top of already beating its total potency, and still having the option to extend its duration.

You didn't really "pick apart" anything for my post. In fact it seems you have not read it carefully.

IF you notice Exiled said "more powerful healing and regens"

I knew the regens part was false since I play both so I compared them to get the numbers.

"Regens"

The initial heal on Asp. Benefic isn't a "Regen", it's an initial heal. Seems like you have forgotten that?

So you are just nitpicking now to try to prove a point (a useless point) when I was just correcting the incorrect information that AST actually has more powerful HoTs than WHM.

If you compare WHMs Regen's extra tick versus the initial heal of Asp. Benefic the result is still: Basically the same. The difference is <1%. Are we REALLY going to nitpick that? Yes, you can extend it's duration every 2 minutes, but that is a niche of AST just like WHM Lillies (and Critical heals) can lower the cooldown of Asylum/Assize. AST increases duration to get more effect and WHM can reduce the cooldown to use the effect more often. It ends up to be pretty much the same thing in the end just different methods.

*PS. No good AST would use Celestial Opposition specifically to increase regens only; nor would they use time dilation just to increase a regen either.

Thing is...why does it matter if AST and WHM heal for around the same amount with their asp benefic/regen/medica II/asp. helios regen spells?

Healing power is not the issue so why does it become one if someone just corrects incorrect information?

WHM is lacking utility. Higher healing NEVER means anything as long as the content can be properly healed. The main thing about the "meta", as people are forgetting, is the DPS that healer can contribute either by buffs or by direct healer DPS spells.

WHM has the highest healer DPS damage. It doesn't make up for Balance, but it closes the gap to closer than some people think. So WHM just needs some extra utility or up the DPS they can personally do.

If they increase WHM's healing power to above ASTs right now what does this accomplish? The meta won't change because WHM still cannot do as much DPS as AST unless WHM ends up SO overpowered at healing that groups no longer need two healers. If that is your goal then we might as well just delete SCH and AST and only have one healer job: White Mage.

So please as a WHM main as well as AST. Argue the real issue of no WHM utility. Not nitpick regens trying to claim one is sooo much better than the other when that isn't even true or the problem.

[Reilyn]

The initial heal on Asp. Benefic isn't a "Regen", it's an initial heal. Seems like you have forgotten that?

So you are just nitpicking now to try to prove a point

My god that is the definition of nitpicking if I've ever seen one. The point is diurnal aspected benefic is a better spell than the one it was copied from. AST's regen copy spell is better than WHM's regen spell.

You know what I meant, and you're nitpicking to save face, and you're well aware of it.

*PS. No good AST would use Celestial Opposition specifically to increase regens only; nor would they use time dilation just to increase a regen either.

That's either a deliberate misrepresentation of my point, or you should read between the lines better.

Never said AST should do it specifically to increase the duration of HOTs. Why are you talking about a point I haven't said or made?

The reality is, ASTs often times extend the duration of HOTs when they have a high-priority target with balance or something on them already.

Basically, those HOTs are getting a duration increase as a bonus for extending a high priority card target anyway. You're the AST main, you should know what I meant. Why are you trying to misrepresent my words?

So please as a WHM main as well as AST. Argue the real issue of no WHM utility. Not nitpick regens trying to claim one is sooo much better than the other when that isn't even true or the problem.

1. Diurnal aspected benefic is a factually superior spell to Regen. You conceded this in your own post, but you're shifting the goalpost by addressing the 'regen' mechanic instead of the spell to make it look like I'm wrong on all accounts. Again, stop that. I can see when you do this, and you're starting to annoy me when you do, because you know what I meant, as well as I, but you dress up words like a politician, and I suspect you're doing it deliberately.

2. Already did. Several times. Hell, did it in my very previous post before this one. Sorry if I don't write that post out for every person I respond to when I'm actually addressing something else specifically. Should I put it in my signature?

Here:

...

Happy? Now respond to that because your nitpicking is actually annoying me and it gets us nowhere.

[Ayer2015]

If they nerf the shielding strength of Aspected Benefic and Aspected Helios, I swear I will not play AST anymore. I was growing sick of having to rely on Diurnal before SBs launch because Nocturnal shielding was just awful. AST is fine where it is and I even swap between Diurnal and Nocturnal as needed, please dont nerf my class D:

What? Nocturnal AST was not bad in late HW content.... are you kidding me? The Aspected Benefic buff was not needed, period.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Even if mathematically one is better than the other the difference is obviously REALLY tiny and Medica II actually ticks higher than Aspected Helios.

I was saying this simply comparing potencies, yes. Which is still pretty bad. The hybrid job healing as much as the "pure healer"? That's a very dangerous position to be in. Yes I know WHM has more oGCD heals, but it's still worrying to see AST matching WHM heals while offering far superior buffs.

As far as the issue with SCH, the buffs coming up is definitely going to elevate them. And that leaves WHM where? They have no buffs, no utility, no unique raid synergy, and their heals are matched by AST.
You have to admit this is concerning.

[Ceasaria]

As far as the issue with SCH, the buffs coming up is definitely going to elevate them. And that leaves WHM where?

Plenary Indulgence.
I suspect raid utility here, for tuesday.

Wait & see the tweak about lilies too (I am expecting 2 lilies 100% by Cure II, now, Cure I 100% for 1 lilie).

If I'am correct, WHM will shine for sure.


PS : Believe in White Mage !

[Minizomb]

As an astro, I hope my heals do not get touched as for the shielding I don't rightfully care. I never had to much trouble even before it was buffed. Though skills should still be usable and for the majority of people it seems they didn't find it useful. I personally don't see the point in nerfing astro because of sch. They need to take a long hard look at sch. As for WHM I party with mostly whm and I would say we are about equal with them in heals, I like partying with whm we compliment each other well. It's scholar that needs the help.

[alimdia]

You don't restore job balance by buffing everyone else, you're assuming that your job is the one balanced and the other two aren't, you don't see it from the point of view that AST is the one that is too ahead for all the utility they offer on top of healing.

If devs start going around with a buffing stick every time there's a balance issue we'll eventually reach a problem with power creep, with super high number and a super high gap between jobs.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

If devs start going around with a buffing stick every time there's a balance issue we'll eventually reach a problem with power creep, with super high number and a super high gap between jobs.

This, seriously. I know you don't want your favorite job brought down, but if it needs to happen, it needs to happen. And AST right now just steps all over the other healers. The only thing keeping dual AST from being a thing is cards overlapping. That's how bad it is.

We WILL hit another problem by just infinitely buffing everything. SE really needs to stop being afraid of giving jobs nerfs if they need it.

[Daralii]

This, seriously. I know you don't want your favorite job brought down, but if it needs to happen, it needs to happen. And AST right now just steps all over the other healers. The only thing keeping dual AST from being a thing is cards overlapping. That's how bad it is.

We WILL hit another problem by just infinitely buffing everything. SE really needs to stop being afraid of giving jobs nerfs if they need it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the main outlier SCH because of how bad it is?