Healer adjustment in 4.05

**Tashim** · 07-17-2017 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by OcieKo

Your math is off. Its 575:300 base 575:600 crit, 900 SCH crit is adding in the heal but not the crit potency addition. 862 i think is trying to account for the crit potency addition but not the base heal. Since the base heal would make it 805v900 if neither have crits effect on the base heal in consideration.
But rougly the math should look like AST: (230*CPot)*2.5 = SPot, SCH: (300*CPot)*2 = SPot, so your looking at balancing 575*CPot to 600*CPot and Crit Potency is below 200% now in SB how much I'm not sure.

You'll find that my math is perfectly accurate once you account for the crit potency.
I didn't spell it all out in this post, but its pretty simple.
sch shield potency is 300. crit potency is 50%. crit shield is 300*1.5*2.0 = 900
ast shield potency is 200*1.15*2.5 =575. crit is 1.5 more, 862.5.

crit potency seems to be a set 50% in SB, while in HW it scaled with crit rating, it was easy to have more than 50% potency with high crit. That seems to no longer be the case, but I'll need to get more crit rating to properly test it.

**technole** · 07-16-2017 12:31 PM

Doing minimum ilevel content with the role skill changes means just having tank/caster/ranged DPS pick up some slack on mitigation like caster Addle and tank reprisal. Ranged DPS has palisade.

**CreinCrein** · 07-16-2017 04:07 PM

Adlo changes aren't needed. The reason for the shield disparity between Noct AST and SCH is due to the fact that SCH has a 1700-2100 free HPS bot flying around throwing around hundreds of thousands of HP worth of healing and freeing up dozens of healer GCDs for dps. SCH hands-down, even in it's "nerfed" state, has more output than any other healer is capable of doing in raid setting sans balance. Noct AST's shields are pretty much novelty compared to scholar utility and practicality.

**Rubiss** · 07-16-2017 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by CreinCrein

Adlo changes aren't needed. The reason for the shield disparity between Noct AST and SCH is due to the fact that SCH has a 1700-2100 free HPS bot flying around throwing around hundreds of thousands of HP worth of healing and freeing up dozens of healer GCDs for dps. SCH hands-down, even in it's "nerfed" state, has more output than any other healer is capable of doing in raid setting sans balance. Noct AST's shields are pretty much novelty compared to scholar utility and practicality.

That fairy is at the expense of healing power. SCH doesn't have a spammable Medica or a Medica 2 equivalent nor a spammable Cure 2. SCH is good at burst healing and flexible healing. Their actual healing power is low. Adloquium should not have a lower potency and cost more while also having a cast time versus the superior Aspected Benefic. That's just stupid. Adlo should either cost less than Aspected Benefic or have higher potency. One of the two. If you think SCH has the highest HPS, then you clearly do not actually play SCH and if you do, you do not have actual data. And no one cares about your A12S parses. In a fight so easy which can be solo healed within the first few weeks of coming out, the inflated numbers from that is not really important.

**CreinCrein** · 07-16-2017 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by Rubiss

That fairy is at the expense of healing power. SCH doesn't have a spammable Medica or a Medica 2 equivalent nor a spammable Cure 2. SCH is good at burst healing and flexible healing. Their actual healing power is low.

I didn't say SCH had more HPS, I said it had more output. Link one source, time by time, percentile by percentile log where a noct AST exceeds a SCH in both damage and HPS simultaneously; you can't because Noct requires you to waste dozens of GCDs doing what eos can do by herself. It wasn't uncommon to have SCH mainheal in speed clears either because their opportunity cost per spell is so low compared to other healers, allowing more uptime for their co-heals to DPS. Creator was also piss easy so I tried to optimize it for fun? You literally have no logs, nothing to show for how much you're spewing leading me to believe you have 0 idea what you're talking about .-.

**Furious** · 07-16-2017 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by CreinCrein

I didn't say SCH had more HPS, I said it had more output. Link one source, time by time, percentile by percentile log where a noct AST exceeds a SCH in both damage and HPS simultaneously; you can't because Noct requires you to waste dozens of GCDs doing what eos can do by herself. It wasn't uncommon to have SCH mainheal in speed clears either because their opportunity cost per spell is so low compared to other healers, allowing more uptime for their co-heals to DPS. Creator was also piss easy so I tried to optimize it for fun? You literally have no logs, nothing to show for how much you're spewing leading me to believe you have 0 idea what you're talking about .-.

In what subjective timeframe do you consider output and hps to be different, since they are a measure of exactly the same thing?

**LegoTechnic** · 07-16-2017 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by CreinCrein

Adlo changes aren't needed. The reason for the shield disparity between Noct AST and SCH is due to the fact that SCH has a 1700-2100 free HPS bot flying around throwing around hundreds of thousands of HP worth of healing and freeing up dozens of healer GCDs for dps. SCH hands-down, even in it's "nerfed" state, has more output than any other healer is capable of doing in raid setting sans balance. Noct AST's shields are pretty much novelty compared to scholar utility and practicality.

Just some funny little tidbits.

Adloquium costs 1800 mana to cast. This is the same amount of mana as Aspected Helios which gives an AoE shield approximately 41 potency weaker than adlo's basic shield (259 potency shield vs adlo's 300 potency shield). If you cast Adlo twice in a row, then you just spent the same amount of mana that it takes to cast Resurrection (3600 MP). If comparing adlo to Aspected Benefic, AspBen offers 575 potency shields on all casts versus Adlo's 300 potency shield on a non-crit with the balance being that adlo heals for 100 potency more. On a crit comparison, adlo's 600 potency shield is only 25 potency greater. While it can be deployed, the mana cost of adlo prevents 'fishing for crits", and you can only deploy off the main tank if you're using adlo on them in a phase where they both aren't being hit and are close enough to use as a focal point to spread (10y radius), so often when deploying in mid-battle you're either wasting an adlo heal on a target that doesn't need it for the bounce or you've planned its use it in a phase where the tank isn't being hit. This can be done once every 90 seconds, or every minute and half. While this can be very useful in a lot of places (I used it multiple times to help with mechanics in Brute Justice), there is no encounter that requires deployed crit-shields and there never will be by S-E's own design statements. It is a tool you can use with good results but it will never be required, so often an AspHel will be more than enough for the same purpose and a lot easier to use, especially given the extra time lag required for deployed shields to actually spread and register on players, and AspHel can be reapplied immediately after whereas deployment cannot.

Succor has even worse performance issues with its 2280 mana cost (the most expensive AoE heal in the game) and 150 potency heal and shields (both notably weaker than AspHel's), but Succor can be supported by both Indomitability and Whispering Dawn when their cooldowns are up, so there's a bit of logic in its poor performance. Less logic now that Earthly Star and the shortened cooldown on Assize reduce indom's niche, but I feel like the spirit is still there, and no one should want to think of spamming Succor as viable regardless.

**Supersun** · 07-16-2017 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by CreinCrein

Adlo changes aren't needed. The reason for the shield disparity between Noct AST and SCH is due to the fact that SCH has a 1700-2100 free HPS bot flying around throwing around hundreds of thousands of HP worth of healing and freeing up dozens of healer GCDs for dps. SCH hands-down, even in it's "nerfed" state, has more output than any other healer is capable of doing in raid setting sans balance. Noct AST's shields are pretty much novelty compared to scholar utility and practicality.

The solution to that should probably be more that Noct Ast get's some level of AoE regen around them or something, not that Scholar's entire healing kit should be an overcosted mess.

Originally Posted by Rawrz

They had a chance at making dissipation useful and they chose to let it be extremely niche again.

If that aetherflow cooldown change is that every aetherflow skill has a 100% chance of reducing the cooldown by 5 seconds then Dissipation actually becomes a pretty interesting skill. 3 free stacks and reducing the CD of aetherflow from 45 to 30 seconds is decent enough to consider.

**Kurando** · 07-16-2017 05:54 PM

I really would like to see Adloqium have a trait similar to that WHM has for Cure. So instead of a 15% chance of free MP cost (for Cure II) make it a 15% chance of the next Aldo being a guaranteed critical on the target. I dunno something around that number, but it would atleast give the SCH some kind of reward for Shield upkeep considering AST can just spam AspBen with no casting time.

**xNewbx** · 07-16-2017 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Kurando

I really would like to see Adloqium have a trait similar to that WHM has for Cure. So instead of a 15% chance of free MP cost (for Cure II) make it a 15% chance of the next Aldo being a guaranteed critical on the target. I dunno something around that number, but it would atleast give the SCH some kind of reward for Shield upkeep considering AST can just spam AspBen with no casting time.

Sounds like the AST trait lol (except the ability to proc the trait is then used on a different one)

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