Not again...

[Brannigan]

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I'm not talking about what was fixed this tier. I'm talking about the reality of HW.

As someone who ran as a paladin let me say that Divine Veil was trash that had an awkward cooldown that didn't align with boss timers. Clemency was slow and people would usually die or get healed before you had a chance to do anything. Also, using it lowered your already poor damage. TP was a constant struggle even on fights with jumps. Shield Bash was a liability on Manipulator. Tempered Will was mediocre, Cover was useless, and paladin had zero AOE for the occasions that AOE actually happened. Dark Knight and Warrior both outclassed paladin in damage, utility, and defenses. Also, damage is always a consideration. How much utility does it take to make up for not skipping a phase? For eating an extra tank buster because the transition was slow? For needing assistance to deal with an add on time? This doesn't have much to do with tanks, but even in 2.x bringing higher DPS was way better than almost any amount of utility or defense you could bring.

Paladin was in a terrible place until pretty much 3.4, and even then it was just "kinda bad." Partially because of party compositions, partially because the entire expansion was designed to counter it, and partially because it was a shitty job that only had half of a working kit and poor damage. So let us stop laying the blame solely at the feet of the almighty meta.

[Zumi]

I played Paladin though all of FFXIV and I really never switch main jobs ever. I level everything to level cap but I still play one main job. Paladin wasn't that good in alex due to so much magic damage that you could not do anything about. Still beat alex so yes it could be done but what it seemed like was that it really wasn't optimal because I was taking more damage and doing less.

[aleph_null]

A8S is a tossup imo. Paladin made you a safer on late-phase tank busters (though you can probably just have warrior cheese them with Holmgang/all their shit) and lets you cheese land mines. Dark Knight let you neuter his AOEs, which are just as dangerous. A7S is similar where HG will let you cheese a couple tank busters but the real threat in that fight is actually Sizzlebeam and his AOE stuff. Divine Veil was wayyyyy too slow to make a difference vs DRK's int down/Reprisal. I did both these fights as paladin, but I think my group would have gotten them weeks earlier if I bit the bullet and played DRK again.

My bad it was unclear but I was trying to say about pld being something to consider over drk since it also offers something useful, unlike in a9s-a11s where they offer little to nothing while lacking drk's aoe, int down as well as single target dps. Wasn't implying them to be better than drk.

I played Paladin though all of FFXIV and I really never switch main jobs ever. I level everything to level cap but I still play one main job. Paladin wasn't that good in alex due to so much magic damage that you could not do anything about. Still beat alex so yes it could be done but what it seemed like was that it really wasn't optimal because I was taking more damage and doing less.

No one would deny that a4s and a12s are terribly designed encounters in terms of magic/physical damage balance. No fight should lean toward one type of damage that far, especially when we have a tank that's really good in physical mitigation and another that's really good in magic mitigation. That'd just make one tank really good and the other really bad for the fight. On a slightly unrelated note, while I liked thordan ex, I also think that the fight leaned too far toward physical damage.

[Dizzy_Derp]

what makes no sense is nerfing the pld's damage additionally to buffing DRK and WAR because if it falls behind too far in damage-utility, then it's only good for the first 3 weeks and i can put my pld back in the closet again and have to play fucking DARK KNIGHT again because else I'll be a burden to my team and that is far removed from balance as well

It does benefit the geoup in a way no other tank can. That's the point. And no you are never gonna have to put your pld away again, everyone will still want them and I will personally still keep playing it. In no way is it even possible for it to be a button with it's not now. It going to lose a small amount of damage, damage that only matters if you are at the top end of the game because if you can't get close to the maximum possible dps than it doesn't matter, all tanks are equal in that skill range.

[Tegernako]

Divine Veil was trash that had an awkward cooldown that didn't align with boss timers. Clemency was slow and people would usually die or get healed before you had a chance to do anything. Also, using it lowered your already poor damage. TP was a constant struggle even on fights with jumps. Shield Bash was a liability on Manipulator. Tempered Will was mediocre, Cover was useless, and paladin had zero AOE for the occasions that AOE actually happened. Dark Knight and Warrior both outclassed paladin in damage, utility, and defenses. Also, damage is always a consideration. How much utility does it take to make up for not skipping a phase? For eating an extra tank buster because the transition was slow? For needing assistance to deal with an add on time? This doesn't have much to do with tanks, but even in 2.x bringing higher DPS was way better than almost any amount of utility or defense you could bring.
.

Well thank god they fixed all those issues.

[Dizzy_Derp]

Also, damage is always a oconsideration. How much utility does it take to make up for not skipping a phase? For eating an extra tank buster because the transition was slow? For needing assistance to deal with an add on time? This doesn't have much to do with tanks, but even in 2.x bringing higher DPS was way better than almost any amount of utility or defense you could

I'm going to say this again, it doesn't matter unless you are playing the tanks toward the highest end possible. if your not it's irrelevant, you couldn't make use of the dps possibilities even if it did 500 more damage. Pld is still in a great spot either way you look at it though, its fun, accessible will still do really good damage when played properly and has the best possible utility.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

No one would deny that a4s and a12s are terribly designed encounters in terms of magic/physical damage balance. No fight should lean toward one type of damage that far, especially when we have a tank that's really good in physical mitigation and another that's really good in magic mitigation. That'd just make one tank really good and the other really bad for the fight. On a slightly unrelated note, while I liked thordan ex, I also think that the fight leaned too far toward physical damage.

I suspect they did that as a band-aid for Paladins who weren't exactly happy the Gordias tier was so magic centric.

[MyaValentine]

...has the best possible utility.

GUESS WHAT BUDDY WE ARE ALL TALKING ABOUT HIGH-END there's no point in disscussing for normal content that stats matters nothing, all I see is you desperately trying to avoid the 1 fact that DMG is what matters, no matter how much pld can heal or mitigate that's what a healer class is for and when healers lock down dmg potencies and learn their fight guess what's gonna happen again if WAR gets an extra 300+ dps over paladin again and drk welcome again to your preferred tank spot I bet you would not mind that as you already had that spot very warmed up an entire expansion.

[Dizzy_Derp]

GUESS

I play all the tanks. My personal favorite is and is alwaus gonna be war. I have continued to play it even though it has been in a shit spot. I\\'m glad with the changes they are getting I still think drk needs more mitigation and I do love how pld feels to play right now and will be playing it for progression. At the same time I was never okay with how much damage it did either it needed a nerd or the others needed to come up. They did a little of both and its going to be the same as if they just needed one or boosted the other. Still all 3 are gonna be in a good spot.

[Remiilia-vermilion]

So.. I'll ask again.. why are "some" ppl are going crazy about the pld nerf and talking about the meta while the current pld does 200+ more dps than war (talking about dps only) and drk is even below war? Can I get a sane pld who's not screaming or going crazy while trying to explain?