Thank you SE

[BluexBird]

Personally i dont care about what classes r in raid as long as we dont penalize the LB, i wont turn away a good player for a mediocre player just because there class

And you think other people won't think this way? Even if "DPS" means everything, if the margins are close to each other the way they should be, people would have to be incredibly obnoxious to rule out the lowest damaging class. In fact, if you get turned down from a group because of your job, it should be a good indicator that you should probably not be raiding with that group in the first place. Obnoxious pricks. -_-

[Tegernako]

u dont need yo feel sorry for anyone. Get off ur high horse. Ill be fine i wont be pushed outof my raid group but u know as much as me the community only cares about DPS. So newer plds wanting to get into groups will have a harder time. Doesnt mean they wont get into a group. People putting together new groups will want top 2 dps more often then not. And when DRK and WAR have faster and more big def CDs make them better for MT and will have more dps to OT. Thats what i said. Ive always said PLD should have lowest dps but NOT by a large margin. We might have more utility but it doesnt add to DPS. Personally i dont care about what classes r in raid as long as we dont penalize the LB, i wont turn away a good player for a mediocre player just because there class

Um...I've never turned away anyone because of class lol

Not even in raids.

[Tegernako]

Top 5 highest parsing pld dps

1. 3590.1

Top 5 wars

1. 3216.3

You are wrong.

How the heck is a slight increase in casting time going to cost them 300-500 in dps to make them so much worse?

Do you even read lol?

Not the first time they have ignored what was actually being said.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4287561

[Dizzy_Derp]

if you only want to only look at the top 5, which represents something like 0.02% of the current total parses, then sure. However you should understand that some people actually want relevant data, and not cherry picked parses.

While I have no actual data to back this up I do have a pretty good guess why this is, there was a HUGE skill gap in 3.xx when it came to warrior, with most not being able to come even close to the top players. Now most of those less skilled players hopped to pld and drk due to the bad spot war has been in and how difficult and punishing the rotation is, i believe the warriors remaining have a much higher skill lvl across the board than the pld and drk base especially when it comes to the percenrile range you are pointing out. Also there are not nearly as many warrior parses as the other two so the data when looking at percentiles is skewed in the direction of war. The best metric is to look at what a job is capable of. Because pld is capable of higher dps that cannot be debated it is fact.

[Fyce]

While I have. O actual data to ba k this up I do have a pretty good guess why this is, there was a HUGE skill gap in 3.xx when it came to warrior, with most not being able to come even close to the top players. Now most of those players hopped to pld and drk, the warriors remaining have a much higher skill lol across the board than the pld and drk base. Also there are not nearly as many warrior parses as the other two so the data when looking at percentiles is skewed in the direction of war. The best metric is to look at what a job is capable of.

Susano and Lakshmi are encounters that people can very easily speedrun and pull padded parses out of. The top 5 parses are not "what these jobs are capable of", it's more about the group as a whole being exceptionally good.
The question is: can you reproduce that in savage? And in super savage? As well as: how much people can reproduce that?

If things aren't balanced for a very small subset of players/groups, then it simply becomes an exception. Perfect balance is impossible to achieve. So trying to reach it while screwing everything for the vast majority of players is probably not the best thing to do in a MMORPG.
Balancing things around the very top can be a good thing in a competitive game, but not really here. There's nothing to gain from that. Especially if you base your balance on a very small and innacurate data.

[Dizzy_Derp]

Susano and Lakshmi are encounters that people can very easily speedrun and pull padded parses out of. The top 5 parses are not "what these jobs are capable of", it's more about the group as a whole being exceptionally good.
The question is: can you reproduce that in savage? And in super savage? As well as: how much people can reproduce that?

The group does not have to be good to get good damage, that's a misconception, I was still able to get a 99th percentile parse in Susano in a full pug with no cheese at a long af time. People wanna act like it has to be set up but it doesn't. You just gotta be good. And yes reproducing that at savage will be possible, it will actually be easier because more tanks will play conservatively due to the higher skill required so getting that high will be a cake walk.

[Fyce]

The group does not have to be good to get good damage, that's a misconception, I was still able to get a 99th percentile parse in Susano in a full pug with no cheese at a long af time. People wanna act like it has to be set up but it doesn't. You just gotta be good. And yes reproducing that at savage will be possible, it will actually be easier because more tanks will play conservatively due to the higher skill required so getting that high will be a cake walk.

Okay, then, let's look at the 99th percentile if that's what you want. Average DPS are: PLD-2884, WAR-2808, DRK-2783 (at the time of writting. The numbers already changed a little bit). As you can see, there's a HUGE difference between the 99th percentile and the 100th. This clearly shows how bad it is to assume that the top 5 is representative of anything.
In short, the difference between tanks is no way near what some people (you included) say it is, simply because using top parses only is meaningless for 99.98% of players.

[FallenWings]

Oh dear I see that auto correct now.

Anyways @dizzy I only want to say that warrior in 3.0 was mindlessly easy. Like SAM levels of low effort high results easy so I can't at all agree that there was a reasonable skill gap present. The majority of "top" WAR parsing is honeslty just how many Fell Crits you got and if you had balance. Otherwise the rotation was a joke and I'd even say the PLD rotation was slightly more complex, both equally braindead and can be top parsed with one hand however.

I wouldn't say current WAR rotation is as hard as people make it out to be right now but as you say that there might be a higher quality of players in WAR, I honestly would say the majority og quality players who played WAR have either swapped to PLD or left the role altogether.

Naturally these are all guesses so take it as you will.

[aleph_null]

Optimizing the current war rotation is a lot harder due to infuriate's new trait. Maximizing infuriate usage outside berserk may require delaying subsequent berserks by a few gcds and thus misaligning it with other buffs like trick attack, embolden etc, or even worse you might risk losing berserk usage/uptime depending on mechanics/phase pushes, so it's very fight/phase/group dependent. However, holding infuriate and using it exclusively for berserk doesn't seem to cause too much dps loss anyway.

[Marxam]

While I agree that it is a little trickier to get the timing, especially when you factor in mechanics, I always try to maintain above 50 gauge so I have at least 5% crit at all times and if I see that IR and Berserk is up but Infuriate is <15 secs till off cd I use it because the two FC's at the start and the gcds will have it up for when I need to use it.

Just a good rule of thumb really if you have Berserk up, 100 gauge and Infuriate is <15 secs you can go Berserk. Timing and FC priority will determine how much you can force Infuriate out of cd but you can technically go up to < 25 secs on Infuriate reuse when you first pop IR and berserk.

When it comes to party alignment its really a loss for us since we only get our burst going after 30 seconds into the fight since we need to build gauge to 100 for full burst. Unless you are willing to give up two fell cleaves in the IR rotation for 50 gauge at the start.