Refusal to LB3

[Alisi]

I come to you all with a question: why do melee DPS refuse to do LB3 lately?

I've never had an issue with DPS and LB. You ask and they do it. Now it's like twisting an arm. I've had melee DPS out and out refuse to use LB3 in, say, Susa Ex. Literally saying no in the party chat when you ask them. You think I kid? I do not.

I'm trying to understand what the issue here is. It's multiple people, in multiple runs, and I don't have any melee DPS to 70. I've a SMN and the rest are healers. No one ever asks a SMN to LB3 and I can count on one hand the times I've used LB2 so I thought perhaps there is an issue with casting LB3 that I don't know of?

Does it hurt your DPS to cast LB3? Does it give you a debuff or something? Is it a huge burden to ask someone to use it? What's going on here? Why are people refusing to use it?

[ADVSS]

oh thats easy, were holding onto it so the healers can clutch us maybe a victory

and yes, more importantly the caster is stuck standing for 3 seconds eating damage and aoes while it goes off.

[Lelila38]

Same as what I posted in that other thread:
Ran Omega V3 with a friend, he was on Sam. Everything looks under control, Lb3 is up, so he uses it. Minutes later someone messes up a mechanic and we wipe. The healers both immediately start giving my friend shit about why he used Lb and that he should have saved it for the healers.
Next pull Lb3 fills up again, noone uses it, we clear the fight without using it. Healers start going on about what a waste it is and why no dps would use the Lb3.

So yeah, I believe that's why a lot of people rather don't use it.

Apart from that, it interrupts rotation, possibly causing people to lose stacks/buffs/... I think that might be another reason for melee not to use it.
But generally, unless you need to save it for a specific mechanic, Lb3 should always be used.

[Elnidfse]

Man I've wiped on Zurvan in clearing parties at 1% with a full LB3. Do you know how frustratingly horrible that is?

[ZentakuG]

Short answer: yes
Longer answer: It's a dip in personal dps so that's one reason as to why peeps don't want to do it. Another is for melee's they have their rotations especially if its a mnk or drg. To stop in the middle of it could end up dropping their Greased lightning or Blood of the dragon resulting in even less dps than not doing the lb in the first place. It's less of an issue for sams and nins but it still screws up your rotations. This gets even more annoying as you try to line up your buffs and rotaion to weave a LB in while also doing boss aoe rotations. Additionally, unless you plan on getting another 2 bars you might as well save it for a kill or wipe rather than doing it with the boss at 20% hp.

[Alisi]

snip

You need it on Susa Ex. As a healer, I don't even bother with LB3. It's a wipe and we start over. In all the kills I've had of Susa Ex, none have been without a melee LB3. Maybe I should preface my appeals with "we'll kick anyone who gives you grief for using it"?

Man I've wiped on Zurvan in clearing parties at 1% with a full LB3. Do you know how frustratingly horrible that is?

That's my situation. It's so frustrating to with a full LB3 and Susa almost dead when he enrages.

[Alisi]

Additionally, unless you plan on getting another 2 bars you might as well save it for a kill or wipe rather than doing it with the boss at 20% hp.

I'm talking about things like Susa Ex. You don't save anything by not using it when it's full. If you wipe, you start over.

[Lelila38]

I'm talking about things like Susa Ex. You don't save anything by not using it when it's full. If you wipe, you start over.

That's why I said it should be used,preferably by melee cause most single target dmg, unless there's stuff like A12S for example, where you need to save it for tanks.

[Lastelli]

You need it on Susa Ex. As a healer, I don't even bother with LB3. It's a wipe and we start over. In all the kills I've had of Susa Ex, none have been without a melee LB3. Maybe I should preface my appeals with "we'll kick anyone who gives you grief for using it"?

What? Susano can be easily killed in under 7 minutes and the enrage is after 11 minutes. You only need it if all your party members are performing at 60% of what their job is capable of.

As for the LB3...it depends. If I'm playing melee and I'm doing 1.5k more dps than the other melee, I won't LB3. If I'm the only melee and the party is struggling with mechanics, I will save it in case the healers need it. If the party is good and mechanics allow me to use it safely, I will.

That's why I said it should be used,preferably by melee cause most single target dmg, unless there's stuff like A12S for example, where you need to save it for tanks.

If you end up in such a terrible party, you should just ask casters or ranged dps to use it in the rock phase. The LB3 will destroy the rock that is trapping a player and hit the boss. Overall it's quite a decent dps gain over melee LB3 on the boss.

[Alisi]

What? Susano can be easily killed in under 7 minutes and the enrage is after 11 minutes. You only need it if all your party members are performing at 60% of what their job is capable of.

I've never been in such a party. ;=; I don't have a static, so I've been pugging it. (Didn't have a good computer during HW so I never raided then.) I've never been one of those healers who point the figure accusation or rage quit after one wipe. I prefer to help the newer players if I can. And I do understand how the mechanics of that fight are. I wouldn't ask any DPS to stand in the puddles and try to cast it. xD

If you end up in such a terrible party, you should just ask casters or ranged dps to use it in the rock phase. The LB3 will destroy the rock that is trapping a player and hit the boss. Overall it's quite a decent dps gain over melee LB3 on the boss.

This is a good suggestion. Thanks.

I appreciate all you who replied. Stupidly, I didn't consider that DPS would get grief for using a LB3. That's why I brought it to you all to help me understand.