Consolidated Scholar 4.0 Feedback Thread

[Cynfael]

(Obviously no existing threads have actually been consolidated here since I am not a forum admin)

It seemed to help with providing WHM feedback, so why don't we try focusing our feedback more into one thread for the development team?

Please share your opinions and experience of playing SCH in 4.0, both positive and negative, being mindful of content spoilers this early into launch.

[Fawkes]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-your-thoughts

[RevoluXoN]

I feel SCH is really weak compared to the other 2 healers right now.

MP goes down extremely fast now since aetherflow gives only 10% MP and Adlo's MP consumption got significantly increased with absolutely no changes on potency or effects. Lucid Dreaming helps but you end up with no MP in boss fights anyway, as long as you are DPSing ofcourse.

Single target DPS is fine, i can live with the lack of DoTs, but AoE DPS is a joke now...

Excogitation is bad, i mean BAD, taking 1 aetherflow stack for a heal that only works when your ally's HP goes under 50% and only lasts 30 seconds (oh yes, you cant use it on yourself)... there is no point on casting it for a CHANCE of triggering it since it not guaranteed that the HP of your ally is going down during that time, if it doesnt you just wasted an aetherflow stack... i rather save it and use Lustrate if needed since it is instant cast and has almost the same potency.

Chain Strategem sounds good but is not that good in paper since the duration is only 15 seconds, how many GCDs is that? 4/5?, with only a 15% increased chance of crit on a SINGLE enemy.

Quickened Aetherflow (Trait) rarely procs, you only get 3 uses of aetherflow on a 20% chance of cutting the CD by only 10 seconds... it's funny since WHM users were complaining about low chances on their new Lilly mechanic and it got buffed significantly, but we keep the utterly low proc chances on our new trait.


What needs to be changed IMO:

Adloquium: Either lower the MP consumption or increase the shield potency (AST has better shielding abilities now)

Bane: Decrease the penalty on the 5th+ targets to 50% (down from 80%)

Excogitation: Make it heal if the effect is not triggered after the 30 seconds timer, allow it to be used on the caster.

Chain Strategem: Either increase its duration to 30 seconds, or increase its effect to 30%.

Quickened Aetherflow: Increase the chance of reducing the cooldown on Aetherflow from 20% to 50%.

Embrace: There was no need to nerf it... just increase its potency back to 300.

Fey Wind (Selene): I would also love to see Fey Wind buffed a bit to make it stand against AST buffs, 3% is barely noticeable...

[Judge_Xero]

Points on SCH

I agree with a lot of Adrens points. There are a few QOL things that can be addressed on SCH.

Bane: Decrease the penalty on the 5th+ targets to 50% (down from 80%) -> Definitely. I feel SCH's AOE was nerfed a little too much given the combination of losing Bio + the tiered potency Bane gives.

Excogitation: Make it heal if the effect is not triggered after the 30 seconds timer, allow it to be used on the caster. -> While not being able to cast on ones self isn't a big deal because a lot of the time you will use it on something you know will go out of range that will require healing or a tank buster, I do agree that it should proc @ 30s regardless. From using it countless time so far to find the best use for it I find that it takes a while to register even when the target drops below 50% to the point where if they have regen it may not even trigger if they're healed back past 50%. I like the idea of the skill but it could use those QOL changes.

Chain Strategem: Either increase its duration to 30 seconds, or increase its effect to 30%. -> I was excited about this skill @ 20% CRT every 90s. @ 15% every 120s it's pretty trash.

Embrace: There was no need to nerf it... just increase its potency back to 300. -> The Fairy sustained heals were pretty OP. I feel 250 Potency Embrace is fair especially with the addition of Fey Union.

Fey Wind (Selene): I would also love to see Fey Wind buffed a bit to make it stand against AST buffs, 3% is barely noticeable... -> While this skill isn't that noticeable it has always worked ok through the previous tiers. I don't see a need to change it.

Mainly, fix Exco, Bane and Stratagem and give SCH the ability to properly weave (Ruin II to weave is not a good option). Since Bio is upgraded to Bio II it should keep the same 18s timer instead of 30s, but with increased Potency. The short timer will help with weaving and balance out SCH's AOE compared to the other classes.

i.e. Bio II -> 60 Potency @ 18s.

[Cynfael]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-your-thoughts

The point is to get feedback that's been repeated in that thread and others under a thread title that mirrors the popular WHM thread....

Edit: Counting 4 SCH threads alone on the 1st page at this time. We could probably do with a clean-up and some focus to draw more attention. I'm not normally one for starting a bandwagon thread, but I'm feeling pretty strongly about SCH's issues this patch and think that we as a community underestimated the damage while we were distracted by the seemingly tone-deaf WHM design.

[MoonDream]

Excogitation is bad, i mean BAD, taking 1 aetherflow stack for a heal that only works when your ally's HP goes under 50% and only lasts 30 seconds (oh yes, you cant use it on yourself)... there is no point on casting it

Excogitation is GREAT. It is 650 heal potency compared to Lustrate, and it procs instantly. You use it when you know a boss is going to be doing a tankbuster, or any situation where you have an unknown. Heal like you normally would, use Lustrate for those big heals, but use Excogitation when you know your tank has a lot of damage incoming. It has removed so much stress for me already!!

We really do need AoE DPS, though. I miss Miasma II fiercely. Shadow Flare wasn't good enough before, and it certainly ain't cutting it now.

[LegoTechnic]

Excogitation is GREAT. It is 650 heal potency compared to Lustrate, and it procs instantly. You use it when you know a boss is going to be doing a tankbuster, or any situation where you have an unknown. Heal like you normally would, use Lustrate for those big heals, but use Excogitation when you know your tank has a lot of damage incoming. It has removed so much stress for me already!!

We really do need AoE DPS, though. I miss Miasma II fiercely. Shadow Flare wasn't good enough before, and it certainly ain't cutting it now.

"Removed" stress? Don't you mean "added"? You put it on and then you watch it not proc because either your cohealer prevents the target from hitting 50% or the tank self-heals, regens, or mitigates to prevent it. Worse yet is a fight with tank busters that come in intervals less than 60 seconds so you move to apply it and catch it on cooldown, and then there's that great moment when you crit your shield and prevent the tank from hitting 50% on your own. And in the end it really is a flat 650 potency. That is 50 potency more than a lustrate, and as an ability cannot be effected by largesse, dissipation, tank stance, convalescence, and so on.

I like excog, it's a fun idea and I intend to use it as much as possible until I get used to it, but I fully admit it's just as irritating to see it wasted as it is to completely overheal a lustrate. We'll live doing it, certainly, but it feels bad when you're in try-hard mode. Having it auto-proc after 30 seconds would be a nice QoL addition, but we'll get used to it regardless, because that's Scholar life.

[Cynfael]

Excogitation is GREAT. It is 650 heal potency compared to Lustrate, and it procs instantly. You use it when you know a boss is going to be doing a tankbuster, or any situation where you have an unknown. Heal like you normally would, use Lustrate for those big heals, but use Excogitation when you know your tank has a lot of damage incoming. It has removed so much stress for me already!!

I'm with Lego on this:

"Removed" stress? Don't you mean "added"? You put it on and then you watch it not proc because either your cohealer prevents the target from hitting 50% or the tank self-heals, regens, or mitigates to prevent it. Worse yet is a fight with tank busters that come in intervals less than 60 seconds so you move to apply it and catch it on cooldown, and then there's that great moment when you crit your shield and prevent the tank from hitting 50% on your own. And in the end it really is a flat 650 potency. That is 50 potency more than a lustrate, and as an ability cannot be effected by largesse, dissipation, tank stance, convalescence, and so on.

I agree that Excog has applications in theory and will likely see use in raid content where split healing requirements tend to be higher and tank busters powerful enough that the tank is guaranteed to drop below the threshold. On the other hand, having it tick away with a chance not to activate due to factors outside your direct control, as Lego pointed out, makes it a lackluster tool for players who are accustomed to planning their actions a few steps ahead. Frankly, if I know the fight, I have no need for a preset heal unless the mechanics specifically reward its use (i.e. Excog is guaranteed to proc and be more efficient/safer than just timing your casts and abilities in anticipation of the damage as usual). Generally speaking, Lustrate is a superior skill since the potency is nearly the same and you know exactly what you're getting and when you're getting it at all times.

Aside from Excog, these are a few of my feedback points:

+ Putting Shadowflare off the GCD was helpful, and the decreased duration with increased potency makes it more impactful for shorter encounters. Not being able to place it at will is occasionally frustrating, and I think the CD could stand to be a little lower (it's a 50 potency stationary DoT field that lasts for 15 seconds and has an utterly negligible debuff...I think we can be a little more generous, no?).

- Fey Union is a good idea with very poor execution, as others have pointed out. Extremely short tether, unnecessarily long activation time (seriously...this skill is not so cool that it requires a Limit break style dramatic pause before it starts performing), decent-but-unimpressive healing. Rouse and Embrace spam works more reliably from a greater distance, requires neither gauge nor wind-up, and doesn't preclude the faerie using other abilities or being forced/allowed to heal other targets. Also, having the Faerie Gauge reset the way it does seems very unnecessary.

- Quickened Aetherflow can be great when RNG loves you while you unload Energy Drains, but there are too many opportunities for this skill either to fail to activate or to do nothing if it activates only as you unload that last stack you were holding onto and didn't need to use in the final handful of seconds before the CD came up.

- Faerie Embrace potency nerf + horrible level scaling is unacceptable. I had to get lvl 70 and put on artifact gear before Embrace caught up to its effective potency at lvl 60 right before patch. SCH has been a very strong Job for some time now, but to compare to AST yet again, any argument for nerfing SCH went out the window when AST went from strong to beastly in the same patch that SCH went from strong to struggling to be special.

- Adlo MP increase was unnecessary. Same heal and shielding potency since forever ago, now costing more MP. Again, compare unfavorably to AST's single-target shield option, which has a lower heal potency (but not quite as low as it looks thanks to Noct's inherent potency buff) and a huge shielding potency. Not to mention the instant casting feature, which is a nice bonus. If there were a way to guarantee critical Adlos as part of the SCH kit, it might be a different story, but that's not the case.

- If we're going to homogenize the healers further, can we allow SCH to remain somewhat competitive in AoE damage? I thought it was fine and fitting that WHM was the AoE king of healers, but SCH is so far behind both WHM and AST now that it's silly.

- Critical Stratagem: I have not personally tested the math on this, but I'm skeptical as to how much benefit this is offering. Frankly, even if it performs well in a raid environment, it's not substantially adding to the fun factor to be tolerated as an acceptable co-healer just because Stratagem is wanted to push DPS at a critical phase in progression. Besides, AST now has a potentially useful action with each Draw even if RNG sees fit to deny Balances.

- I don't feel that giving SCH access to Lucid Dreaming and nerfing Aetherflow MP restoration was a great move thematically. It feels like rebranding something that was already working fine just for the sake of making each healer operate similarly.

[Lildragora]

For Excogitation I would rather have a 650 potency shield (no heal) but still able to crit that I could either deploy or insta cast for a tank buster. At least then it gets used regardless and all the extra healing in the world wont change that; keeping the AF cost. This just fits the flavor of SCH better. Think Adloquium but with no heal, shield only

[Rawrz]

What ive said I think would benefit SCH:

Remove Ruin mastery that turns ruin into Broil. Instead:

Disastrous Ruin- Ruin's mp cost raises to 1.33 times that of Broil II. 80 Potency AOE within 8 yalms of the target. 20% chance your next ruin will be instant cast. Maybe change Ruin II into broil. Bio II ticking for 9 seconds would outweigh it.

Shadowflare- Places an Aoe at a given area dealing 25 potency a second over 30 seconds. There is a 15% chance that each bio/bio ii or miasma ii tick will reset the timer. Can only be reset once every 15 seconds. While already active Shadowflare becomes a 250 potency aoe around the target, instead of a placeable field. Bane will 100% reset the cd. CD of 60 seconds.

Dissipation- Healing spells increased by 20%. Lustrate, Indomitability, Sacred Soil, Excogitation, Bane and Energy Drain have their potency increased by 20%. You gain III aetherflow stacks. If used while Fey union is tethered to a target, the target has 20% of their mp,TP and hp restored, a barrier of 20% of their max hp is added to the target. Will overide any Galvanize or Nocturnal Benefic/Helios. Cannot be overidden, except by Galvanize or Nocturnal Aspected Benefic/Helios of a higher potency. Successfully using Summon or Summon II removes the effect of Dissipation. Duration 30 seconds. Recast time of 180 seconds.

Virus- Removes the effect of Addle. Target has 15% reduced attributes for 10 seconds.

TRAIT-Brilliant Broil II (instead of just broil to broil ii upgrade)- Embrace has a 20% chance of causing your next broil II to be instant cast. Upgrades Broil to Broil II. (Opening more opportunity to weave.) Duration: 20 seconds.

Deployment tactics. spreads galvanize onto nearby party members and resets its duration. If used on an enemy, spreads Virus to surrounding enemies and resets its duration. Eye for an Eye spreading has been removed since it is a role skill.


Fey union- When used with eos, damage taken is reduced by 10% on top of a ~350 potency, realword healer potency every 3 seconds. IF selene is attached, damage done is increased by 5%, spell based healing received is increased by 50% (Selene will not heal the target.)


If you feel this is overpowered, take a good long look at AST.

If adding new fairy skills:

Selene getting a magic vuln up on a single target for 8 seconds every 90, call it Fey Charm
Eos getting a buff that she would place on a single target that would place a shield for 50% of the next spell based healing received. Call it Fey Memento.

Aetherflow may also need restored to 20% or ALL SPELLS NEED THE AST TREATMENT.

General feel of SCH 4.0:

Gutted. Nerfed. Dead Fish playstyle. Little Brother Ast can do it better.

Leaving it to rot, until some decent changes are made to address AOE and to provide solid opportunities to use OGCD. Maybe 5.0 will offer fairy swapping mechanics and more pet skills/traits?

I'm alright with the removal of Virus. I'm alright with the Eos nerf.

The overall feel though is that SCH is going to have a hard time with mp management and have a very basic dps rotation. Our effecient, low costing, DOTS are gone. More nuking means less MP. Ironic how the class with the most DOTS suddenly became the healer with the worst DoTs. They had always been weaker, but their combine strengt helped to balance the other healer's nukes. Mp wise its going to be a mess. SCH will have to elect to Energy Drain every aetherflow stack we get and pray for the crappy proc, just to not be a reincarnated 4.0's WHM mana situation. Adlo's mp going up, without an increase in utility or cast time exasperates the issue. Fairy will have a very similar potency to regen and aspected benefic. She is going to heal 20% less embrace wise. Thats potentially, 20% more healing SCHs will have to do. SCH needed a decrease in MP costs for their healing spells, not an increase. The fact that Combust II had its mp cost reduced that makes me cynically laugh.