Please don't change Machinist core gameplay

[Greedalox]

But after you're done as Ninja, you're not locked out of Huton for 10 seconds and then get to slowly build it up again (or use Stabilizer). You simply continue with your normal rotation.

MCH continue normal rotation after barrel falls off >.> The only changes in your button presses will be avoiding quick reload and that's only if your overheat was accidental without BS available. You still do 1-2-3 and the like during your no GB phase.

You don't want to overheat without BS.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I'm actually a big fan of being penalized for making mistakes.

That's what the instance itself is for. Shouldn't have to fight your own kit to do your job right.

I mean, wasn't that the whole point of all the job changes in Stormblood?

[Greedalox]

That's what the instance itself is for. Shouldn't have to fight your own kit to do your job right.

I mean, wasn't that the whole point of all the job changes in Stormblood?

I highly disagree with the sentiment of always doing good damage unless you "mess up" in which case it's still good but not that great. People make it sound like you're fighting your own kit, but MCH is just a kit of tools of ups and downs for your heat management and that's not fighting your own kit- that's decision making. Make the right choice or get zapped! It's exhilarating!

And the instance isn't the only thing trying to flub you up, if it was we'd only have 3 generic classes of tank healer and dps performing not much more than 1-2-3 instead of expanded upon ideas of kits, rotations, mechanics of their own that you try to fit into said instance.

[Kyuubee]

What's the point of the heat gauge if the ONLY gameplay of the job is to stay between 50-100.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I highly disagree with the sentiment of always doing good damage unless you "mess up" in which case it's still good but not that great. People make it sound like you're fighting your own kit, but MCH is just a kit of tools of ups and downs for your heat management and that's not fighting your own kit- that's decision making. Make the right choice or get zapped! It's exhilarating!

Purely a matter of personal preference. Any job can end up not dealing good damage, but that's largely a skill/effort thing. And lest we forget, it was always possible to mess up a Wildfire before. MCH was all about maximizing burst windows. What it didn't involve however was frequent stops and hesitation to use skills, lest you REALLY put yourself in a terrible position to do what you're meant to do. Bard for example has very little hesitation in their kit: If you got it, use it. Obviously use it at the right time, but IF you trip up, the mistake isn't hardly as punishing, recovery is much simpler, and the impact to your primary damage dealing is minimal. Same goes for RDM. This isn't me saying make MCH play like BRD or RDM, but if we're going to have a "risk/reward"-based kit, then it needs to actually be rewarding. And currently, it is not.

[Greedalox]

What's the point of the heat gauge if the ONLY gameplay of the job is to stay between 50-100.

It's not the only point of the heat gauge. If you're staying between 50-95 the whole fight then you're ignoring half of the mechanic. You overheat during burst windows.

but if we're going to have a "risk/reward"-based kit, then it needs to actually be rewarding. And currently, it is not.

I don't believe FF14 carries any risk/reward capabilities unless we're talking cards. There's hitting the wrong buttons- but that's not risky, that's just hitting the wrong buttons. An encounter doesn't change because a MCH was brought that actively goes against you unless sometimes.

As for if MCH is currently rewarding? Of course not- but that's because our numbers are lower than they should be, not because of our core gameplay. You could remove all heat gameplay with the current iteration of MCH and it still wouldn't be rewarding in that sense because the numbers are too low. The current system would prove to be very rewarding if the output was there to back it up.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Keeping up Blood of the Dragon: higher DPS. Losing it? Forced lv 50 rotations. In a high end fight, problematic if frequent.
Keeping up Enochian: higher DPS. Losing it? Forced lv. 50 rotations. In a high end fight, problematic if frequent.
DPS Stance for tanks: higher DPS. Not using it? Increased damage taken. In a high end fight, problematic if you stay in it and don't use cooldowns.
The old Cleric Stance: When Yoshi P himself says "I hate Cleric Stance", you know it's an issue. One that was fixed for that very reason.

Risk: making a mistake and/or not fully or properly utilizing said skills above.
Reward: higher damage dealt for properly utilizing said skills above.
My point stands.

[Kyuubee]

For what burst? To push wildfire into a 500 potency attack? That's laughable when you consider the minute long cooldown. The overheat also isn't worth going into considering the MASSIVE potency damage loss. If it were, maybe we would see more than 100 parses that include machinist. The heat gauge as is, is literally a punishment device that does not reward good play but instead gates you from dealing normal damage. The incentive currently is that you either do it perfectly or your damage is going into the garbage.

[Greedalox]

My point stands.

All those examples are people hitting the wrong buttons to lose it/ plainly not using abilities or not using cooldowns.

You even flatly say in one example that it's just a tank not using cooldowns while in DPS stance.

That's not risk, that's hitting the wrong button- or rather no buttons.

The risk simply isn't there in predetermined encounters. The biggest risk I've seen for MCH this expansion so far is MCH getting the lightning lockdown on Susano during wildfire. That's about the closest thing to a point that gets.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

So people are perfect and never make mistakes?

Well then, for actual air-breathing humans, one of the bigger differences currently is that IF you make a mistake as a MCH, your already low DPS completely bottoms out, and recovering from that only sets you further back. This includes elements of your kit that will work against each other in the process of doing so.

Let's paint an even better picture: Your party is trying to push DPS to eke out that last bit of percent to clear a fight. Barrel Stabilizer is on cooldown, Wildfire not available. Do you Overheat and try to push? Do you hold back and not take advantage of the damage increase? What happens IF it's not dead before that Overheat wears off? Sorry, no balance cards, you've got a WHM and SCH. No DRG for piercing. What do you do?

But hey, all players are perfect and never make mistakes. That's why they didn't have to change jobs to make them "simpler" this time around.