RDM and Diversion/AoE

[Rongway]

More commonly though I see RDMs doing big bursts on bosses right after shield lob and causing all sorts of issues lol.

Yeah, that's something that can be avoided with Diversion. Since we just established that Diversion shouldn't be necessary on trash, it should almost certainly be available for a boss opener, and RDM can do an absurd amount of damage (about 1500 potency) in the first two seconds after the tank engages.

[Rhyn]

Or the Tank can stop worrying about "muh deeps" and stay in Tank stance. Then you won't lose hate. Anytime I rip hate on SAM/RDM it's because the Tank is generally too busy dps'ing and forgetting they are, in fact, a tank.

Maybe you should stop talking about "doing your job" when your job includes tools to increase overall group dps that you choose not to use. Yes I'm talking about diversion. If all the dps use diversion and mitigate as much aggro gain as possible, the tank can do more damage while still holding aggro, increasing overall group dps and improving clear times. Suggesting that tanks should always be in tank stance and just hold aggro is the biggest scrub advice ever, an untrained monkey can hold aggro in ffxiv.

[Grelvin]

So the primary scatter target takes the most obviously. After 2-3 scatters I often see my threat creep up. I hit lucid and switch to another target for scatter. If I start to pull again. I hit diversion. If something comes after me after that.. it's typically because the tank is trying too hard to dps instead of rotating threat.

There's nothing to be done at that point.

It gets even worse with Enchanted Moulinet since its so bursty.

TLDR: yes, those RDM are playing poorly

[Thela]

So the primary scatter target takes the most obviously. After 2-3 scatters I often see my threat creep up. I hit lucid and switch to another target for scatter. If I start to pull again. I hit diversion. If something comes after me after that.. it's typically because the tank is trying too hard to dps instead of rotating threat.

There's nothing to be done at that point.

It gets even worse with Enchanted Moulinet since its so bursty.

TLDR: yes, those RDM are playing poorly

That's not the way to utilize these skills. You should lead with diversion when starting the pull to have lower enmity generation off the bat, THEN if you still happen to pull aggro or get close to it you can use lucid to halve all your enmity. See the difference here? by starting with diversion you lower your enmity generation from the very start and then further halve it later on when you have created a lot of it.

I see this a lot though, it seems people do not quite understand how these 2 skills works. Diversion reduces ALL your enmity generated while it is active. Lucid Halves your current enmity on use and after that point does nothing for you (other than restore mp for its duration)

That said, i have found if playing with a good tank i hardly ever need to use them at all (but i still do, cause why not it doesn't affect me in any way to push them) while you gotta be a little more careful on the other end of the spectrum of tanks, but it sure helps there to have them available.

[Grelvin]

Was just speaking in a general conversational tone. I don't nessicarily use those skills in that order always. I feel out the tank abit first.

The take-away from what I was talking about is that if you do not switch Scatter targets, you're probably going to pull. (Your avg RDM not really utilizing any threat reduction) - And if you don't prep yourself for the hate that's going to come with 3-4 Enchanted Moulinet, you're also going to pull.

I don't really have trouble with threat in general. If I do, I'm not the only one in the group.

[Thela]

Was just speaking in a general conversational tone. I don't nessicarily use those skills in that order always. I feel out the tank abit first.

The take-away from what I was talking about is that if you do not switch Scatter targets, you're probably going to pull. (Your avg RDM not really utilizing any threat reduction) - And if you don't prep yourself for the hate that's going to come with 3-4 Enchanted Moulinet, you're also going to pull.

I don't really have trouble with threat in general. If I do, I'm not the only one in the group.

Yeah for sure, i was just pointing out in the scenario you put forth is a very inefficient way to utilize these skills, but hey still better than not using them at all which a lot of people sadly don't.

[Daws]

snip

I'm the exact opposite. I've been leveling my RDM through dungeons and have been struggling with threat despite using Diversion and Lucid Dreaming practically on cd. But then I get a tank that's more on their game (maybe they're better geared?) and it's a world of difference.

I will say, though, RDMs have been in the game for...how many weeks? They start at level 50. Don't expect a flood of experienced RDM/SAMs. Give them time. Even after reading a job guide or watching a video on rotations it's easy to mess up or forget what button you're suppose to hit next when you're dodging mechanics and whatnot. "How many mobs do I just Scatter spam again? Crap."

[JMadFour]

lemme ask a "bad RDM" question.

how, exactly, does Diversion work? I use it whenever I see yellow on my enmity list, but i've never been sure exactly how it functions.

is it an instant decrease in emnity? is it gradual, reducing a set amount of enmity over time? or does it just cause your spells to generate less aggro for the duration?

I use Lucid Dreaming for MP recovery, the enmity decrease I consider a bonus. perhaps I should not use it in this manner.

[Rongway]

So the primary scatter target takes the most obviously.

Scatter and Moulinet are both non-diminishing. All targets will be hit for the same potency, aside from auto-attacks, which shouldn't make a big difference.

If you're pulling agro with Scatter spam, the tank isn't using his AoE enmity generator enough. A single Flash/Overpower/Unleash should be enough to keep things off you for at least six Scatters or three Enchanted Moulinets, even without tank stance.

[OcieKo]

lemme ask a "bad RDM" question.

how, exactly, does Diversion work? I use it whenever I see yellow on my enmity list, but i've never been sure exactly how it functions.

is it an instant decrease in emnity? is it gradual, reducing a set amount of enmity over time? or does it just cause your spells to generate less aggro for the duration?

I use Lucid Dreaming for MP recovery, the enmity decrease I consider a bonus. perhaps I should not use it in this manner.

Diversion basically shrinks how much damage the mob thinks your doing. Say currently you hit mob for 100dmg you gain 100 enmity, with diversion this would be less, so 100dmg 80 enmity or w/e the value is.
Lucid Dreaming makes the mob think your a total scrub. Drops your current enmity by a huge chunk,say you curently have 10k enmity, hit LD you have 5k enmity
Diversion is better used BEFORE your do a ton of damage, Lucid Dreaming is better AFTER you do a ton of damage.

Dont turn my math into cannon, its just easy to see numbers to get an idea of function.

Also some tanks just suck, ended up tanking/OT Menagerie on SAM while using diversion on CD. Dying kindof helped... For a sec.