RDM and Diversion/AoE

[Rongway]

More commonly though I see RDMs doing big bursts on bosses right after shield lob and causing all sorts of issues lol.

Yeah, that's something that can be avoided with Diversion. Since we just established that Diversion shouldn't be necessary on trash, it should almost certainly be available for a boss opener, and RDM can do an absurd amount of damage (about 1500 potency) in the first two seconds after the tank engages.

[Eydis]

snip

Easy answer:
those are bad rdm.

Explained answer:
Rdm opener pulls a lot of dps and in turn a lot of enmity. Bad dps don't pay attention to their enmity and think they are cool/cute/awesome because they pulled hate off a pld that has to spam enmity generation to keep up.
As a rdm I always pop diversion before running my opener, I have less defense and less hp than a tank, why would I want to take hate? If my enmity bar hits yellow, I hit lucid dreaming.
There is zero excuse for a rdm to be pulling hate the way they do.

Secondly for rdm AoE:
Again bad players. Scatter spam and enchanted moulinet are the way to go. I have even told rdm I have run across to use scatter/moulinet and I have been straight up told "I like single target," or "I like dealing high damage numbers." Not realizing that it is actually slower.

[Rongway]

Secondly, there can be 4+ mobs on the screen, yet so many single target. Is RDM aoe that bad? Is single targeting better even when there's about a dozen mobs onscreen?

At exactly three targets, a mixed approach should be taken, as Rawrz explained. Scatter-Verslowspell-Scatter-Verslowspell. This does the same damage as Scatter-Scatter-Scatter-Scatter but generates more mana for Moulinet.

At four or more targets, Scatter spam does more damage.

Here and here are maths.

[Grelvin]

So the primary scatter target takes the most obviously. After 2-3 scatters I often see my threat creep up. I hit lucid and switch to another target for scatter. If I start to pull again. I hit diversion. If something comes after me after that.. it's typically because the tank is trying too hard to dps instead of rotating threat.

There's nothing to be done at that point.

It gets even worse with Enchanted Moulinet since its so bursty.

TLDR: yes, those RDM are playing poorly

[Thela]

So the primary scatter target takes the most obviously. After 2-3 scatters I often see my threat creep up. I hit lucid and switch to another target for scatter. If I start to pull again. I hit diversion. If something comes after me after that.. it's typically because the tank is trying too hard to dps instead of rotating threat.

There's nothing to be done at that point.

It gets even worse with Enchanted Moulinet since its so bursty.

TLDR: yes, those RDM are playing poorly

That's not the way to utilize these skills. You should lead with diversion when starting the pull to have lower enmity generation off the bat, THEN if you still happen to pull aggro or get close to it you can use lucid to halve all your enmity. See the difference here? by starting with diversion you lower your enmity generation from the very start and then further halve it later on when you have created a lot of it.

I see this a lot though, it seems people do not quite understand how these 2 skills works. Diversion reduces ALL your enmity generated while it is active. Lucid Halves your current enmity on use and after that point does nothing for you (other than restore mp for its duration)

That said, i have found if playing with a good tank i hardly ever need to use them at all (but i still do, cause why not it doesn't affect me in any way to push them) while you gotta be a little more careful on the other end of the spectrum of tanks, but it sure helps there to have them available.

[Rongway]

So the primary scatter target takes the most obviously.

Scatter and Moulinet are both non-diminishing. All targets will be hit for the same potency, aside from auto-attacks, which shouldn't make a big difference.

If you're pulling agro with Scatter spam, the tank isn't using his AoE enmity generator enough. A single Flash/Overpower/Unleash should be enough to keep things off you for at least six Scatters or three Enchanted Moulinets, even without tank stance.

[Grelvin]

Was just speaking in a general conversational tone. I don't nessicarily use those skills in that order always. I feel out the tank abit first.

The take-away from what I was talking about is that if you do not switch Scatter targets, you're probably going to pull. (Your avg RDM not really utilizing any threat reduction) - And if you don't prep yourself for the hate that's going to come with 3-4 Enchanted Moulinet, you're also going to pull.

I don't really have trouble with threat in general. If I do, I'm not the only one in the group.

[Thela]

Was just speaking in a general conversational tone. I don't nessicarily use those skills in that order always. I feel out the tank abit first.

The take-away from what I was talking about is that if you do not switch Scatter targets, you're probably going to pull. (Your avg RDM not really utilizing any threat reduction) - And if you don't prep yourself for the hate that's going to come with 3-4 Enchanted Moulinet, you're also going to pull.

I don't really have trouble with threat in general. If I do, I'm not the only one in the group.

Yeah for sure, i was just pointing out in the scenario you put forth is a very inefficient way to utilize these skills, but hey still better than not using them at all which a lot of people sadly don't.

[Daws]

snip

I'm the exact opposite. I've been leveling my RDM through dungeons and have been struggling with threat despite using Diversion and Lucid Dreaming practically on cd. But then I get a tank that's more on their game (maybe they're better geared?) and it's a world of difference.

I will say, though, RDMs have been in the game for...how many weeks? They start at level 50. Don't expect a flood of experienced RDM/SAMs. Give them time. Even after reading a job guide or watching a video on rotations it's easy to mess up or forget what button you're suppose to hit next when you're dodging mechanics and whatnot. "How many mobs do I just Scatter spam again? Crap."

[JMadFour]

lemme ask a "bad RDM" question.

how, exactly, does Diversion work? I use it whenever I see yellow on my enmity list, but i've never been sure exactly how it functions.

is it an instant decrease in emnity? is it gradual, reducing a set amount of enmity over time? or does it just cause your spells to generate less aggro for the duration?

I use Lucid Dreaming for MP recovery, the enmity decrease I consider a bonus. perhaps I should not use it in this manner.