Please nerf RDM!

[Oscura]

You are being ridiculous.

It is not about winning, it is about what that person finds fun.

Balance is about winning. You do not balance around fun. That is why I'm calling you ridiculous. Balance is for all levels of play, and ultimately is determined by classes and their optimization. Everything you are posting is just your opinion and mostly conjecture. The devs do not balance off playstyle. They never once said that. Do not put words in their mouth. They already explained their design philosophy despite simultaneously contradicting it with the level of damage RDM and NIN are capable of.

Like I said, stop trying to delude people into thinking that balance is around playstyle and "fun." You cannot balance any game based on two things that are purely subjective. It is functionally impossible. The devs themselves didn't even know how to properly play NIN when they first released it and it's clear that their balance choices are poor as it is. If they kept balancing things based on what they feel like then this game would never get anywhere.

As someone said, if we're to follow this ridiculous nonsense, then Savage and Extreme primals should no longer offer better rewards. After all, it's about "fun," and "playstyle." It's more fun for certain people to play more difficult content for the sake of it, and it's in their playstyle. Therefore, doing it for the sake of it should be good enough for them. There is nothing that says people who do harder content should be more rewarded and get exclusive gear.

[Wavaryen]

Um, did you not read the live letter?

They said that a class being easier does not matter to them. They made RDM easy, and powerful.

Balance would be the classes have closer numbers near each other I can agree with that, but rewarding a class just because it is tougher? Can't happen in a mmo with a wide range of player skill. The devs focus more on classes having flavor, not rewarding how tough things are. The people who want a tough class that tests them to the limits are vastly out number by the people who just want a class that is fun and rewarding. RDM and Sam are both design around that.


That is why sam and red are not getting a nerf next patch, and they tweaking some numbers for blm and some other classes. You won't be seeing nerfs to both classes for awhile at least. (nerfs always happens)

[Oscura]

Um, did you not read the live letter?

They said that a class being easier does not matter to them. They made RDM easy, and powerful.

Did you read my post, or your own post? They said that they don't care a class is easy. They never said they balanced the class based on what's "fun" for certain "playstyles". I know that they said a class being easier doesn't matter to them. I'm saying that's pigheaded.

Balance would be the classes have closer numbers near each other I can agree with that, but rewarding a class just because it is tougher? Can't happen in a mmo with a wide range of player skill. The devs focus more on classes having flavor, not rewarding how tough things are. The people who want a tough class that tests them to the limits are vastly out number by the people who just want a class that is fun and rewarding. RDM and Sam are both design around that.

Rewarding a class because it is tougher is often a common thing in MMOs. In many games really. In some fighting games characters that are high risk are also some of the most dominant characters because of their damage and tools. Almost any game with differing levels of skill have "wide range," do not act like MMOs are different. Every class should have flavor, but the flavor is ultimately irrelevant when optimization is taken into consideration. You are talking in circles at this point.

The people who want tough classes will always be outnumbered by people who want easy classes, but simultaneously the people who are actually skilled at the game also are vastly outnumbered by people who aren't as good. It doesn't mean they shouldn't be rewarded. It's the same thing as raiding in Savage or killing Extremes. Most players don't do them. Does this mean that Savage, Extreme and other content should be based around pure "flavor" and nothing more? They should not get any extra gear, extra rewards or loot? That PoTD 101-200 and anything similar after the fact should be brought down, so that all the rewards like the Black Pegasus are available to floor 1-100 as well? It's just utter nonsense. You're implying people play for difficulty for the sake of it. More people play for the rewards than anything. This is just a fact. That's specifically why people raid to begin with. I guess you weren't around for the huge debate around hunts giving gear away for free in 2.x that was the same ilvl as Second Coil gear. Raiders constantly complaining their gear was "invalidated," and that their accomplishments meant nothing. Most people do not play this game for the sake of getting their butts kicked, period.

That is why sam and red are not getting a nerf next patch, and they tweaking some numbers for blm and some other classes. You won't be seeing nerfs to both classes for awhile at least. (nerfs always happens)

I have not mentioned SAM and RDM getting nerfed once. This is completely irrelevant to what I am saying.

[Wavaryen]

Um Mmos have changed, I mean even WOW has classes that are tougher than others.

Demon Hunter rotation is much easier than some warlock specs. That is just a prime example.



What I am trying to say is that MMOs are changing, it is about having all types of classes easy, med, hard. A dps is balance around dps, not balance around how tough it is too play. Devs just don't do that anymore.

[Kacho_Nacho]

So, I believe the Live Letter just confirmed no changes to RDM, which is absolute bs IMO

No. Let me link it the statements.

RE: DPS & Skill

and

RE: Vercure

If you read the Yoshi-san's statements, he doesn't say Red Mage will not be adjusted. He's stating two things.


The first is the complexity of a job is part of the unique flavor of that job. SE is moving away from higher difficulty meaning higher dps.

The second is that different jobs are different and we should stop trying to make all jobs the same.

Neither of these statements tell us anything about whether red mage will be nerfed or buffed.

TL;DR: Don't bother playing more difficult jobs. You don't get rewarded with higher performance, you only get more opportunities to mess up and perform worse as a result.

Nah, it's saying you should pay a job because you enjoy that job.

[Oscura]

Um Mmos have changed, I mean even WOW has classes that are tougher than others.

Demon Hunter rotation is much easier than some warlock specs. That is just a prime example.



What I am trying to say is that MMOs are changing, it is about having all types of classes easy, med, hard. A dps is balance around dps, not balance around how tough it is too play. Devs just don't do that anymore.

This is literally just your opinion and just you repeating yourself constantly, but alright.

[Wavaryen]

This is literally just your opinion and just you repeating yourself constantly, but alright.

I give examples, and devs own words, but hey you can have your opinion without any examples at all. Have a nice day.

Q5. It was explained that in Patch 4.0 the focus was to reduce the large DPS disparity, but certain jobs feel more reliant on player skill than others. Are certain jobs intended to maintain that difference?

A5. One of the main concepts of FFXIV is that “when playing a job, you experience the uniqueness of that job.”
Due to this, there is a difference in difficulty between the jobs, and it used to be that higher difficulty meant more DPS. We will be scaling down this factor.


That is pretty much the normal now. Many MMOs are doing this, it is not about difficulty it is about the class flavor. I mean what more do you want?

[Amulrei]

you don't see how crying for nerfs will actually hurt you. if you get a nerf to RDM and a Buff to you? it means RDM will spend more time solely DPSing in raid and pissing off people who wanted to embrace a true hybrid while you spend more time in RAID healing your pets instead of DPSing

the key is to THINK of the entire situation not just yourselves in this equation

My thoughts exactly. Why people would campaign for less emergency healing and resses is beyond me. Thankfully the devs are not buying into that nonsense going by the live letter.

[KDSilver]

Nerf Yoshida I say.

[Nezia]

Hum... I have a different view from this difficult ~ dps thing you guys are talking about, so just let me leave this here:

There are factors that are within the player's control that will lower or increase your dps depending on your choice, for example: a new SAM will often mess up and repeat their combos or let their kenki bar overcap, as he learns how to play the class these mistakes will happen less often and his performance will increase, which feels good; A BLM new to the Susano fight will often let his AF/UI fall or use an out of time transpose because he did not know the timers for movement moments, as he learns the fight, he will find ways to keep his buffs up minimizing dps loss by mechanics and his performance will increase, which also feels good.

But there are also factors that are beyond the player's control that will lower your dps and you can not do a thing about it, for example: Susanno will lock you up, Lakshimi will MC everyone during her long transition phase animation. Some classes are heavily punished by these things, like BLM who will see his buffs fall without being able to do a thing, and others will fell nothing but some downtime, and as long as the mechanic is over they are good to go, like RDM.

Now, since you talked about wow, I will do the same: Shadow priest has a talent called Surrender to Madness, in short this talent is a ridiculously strong buff that you can maintain for quite some time(but not forever), once this buff falls off you literally die(horribly) and can not receive a ress even if avaible. This is a perfect high risk = high reward situation, if mechanics and latency allows it this talent will turn you into the ultimate dps and you would feel like the guy bringing down the boss hp. But if mechanics would force you to stop attacking the boss, or run to the other side of the room where you would not be able to attack or some stuns/silences would be inevitable, in other words factors that you can not control, so the talent would end up backfiring and often you would prefer other talents over this so strong surrender to madness.

And I believe this was a good design, there is the difficulty that you can work around, and there is the inevitable punishment, for the first, I believe that classes that suffer heavily from the second should outperform in fights where the second is not a thing, as for the second, said classes should be outperformed by more flexible ones.