Please nerf RDM!

[Oscura]

Um Mmos have changed, I mean even WOW has classes that are tougher than others.

Demon Hunter rotation is much easier than some warlock specs. That is just a prime example.



What I am trying to say is that MMOs are changing, it is about having all types of classes easy, med, hard. A dps is balance around dps, not balance around how tough it is too play. Devs just don't do that anymore.

This is literally just your opinion and just you repeating yourself constantly, but alright.

[Wavaryen]

This is literally just your opinion and just you repeating yourself constantly, but alright.

I give examples, and devs own words, but hey you can have your opinion without any examples at all. Have a nice day.

Q5. It was explained that in Patch 4.0 the focus was to reduce the large DPS disparity, but certain jobs feel more reliant on player skill than others. Are certain jobs intended to maintain that difference?

A5. One of the main concepts of FFXIV is that “when playing a job, you experience the uniqueness of that job.”
Due to this, there is a difference in difficulty between the jobs, and it used to be that higher difficulty meant more DPS. We will be scaling down this factor.


That is pretty much the normal now. Many MMOs are doing this, it is not about difficulty it is about the class flavor. I mean what more do you want?

[Fortune_Cookie]

That is pretty much the normal now. Many MMOs are doing this, it is not about difficulty it is about the class flavor. I mean what more do you want?

Many MMOs aren't doing this and it remains to be seen whether FFXIV is doing it. All Yoshida said was "We will be scaling down this factor". That's not equivalent to relegating job difficulty to a complete irrelevance.

What is true is that other games (WoW basically) have found it convenient to shift the skill gap from class complexity to encounter complexity (conveniently hidden behind multiple difficulty modes). I find that lamentable, but it is what it is.

However, the core concept of higher difficulty carrying a greater reward is obviously alive and well. Talent choices in wow are clearly balanced around the idea that the more complex talents (adding skills to the rotation/high-risk high reward type options) have slightly higher throughput if used correctly.

I admit my immediate reaction to this live letter statement was disappointment. On reflection, I hope that SE recognise that caster balance needs addressing and will make changes in 4.1 or 4.2.

[KDSilver]

Nerf Yoshida I say.

[Nezia]

Hum... I have a different view from this difficult ~ dps thing you guys are talking about, so just let me leave this here:

There are factors that are within the player's control that will lower or increase your dps depending on your choice, for example: a new SAM will often mess up and repeat their combos or let their kenki bar overcap, as he learns how to play the class these mistakes will happen less often and his performance will increase, which feels good; A BLM new to the Susano fight will often let his AF/UI fall or use an out of time transpose because he did not know the timers for movement moments, as he learns the fight, he will find ways to keep his buffs up minimizing dps loss by mechanics and his performance will increase, which also feels good.

But there are also factors that are beyond the player's control that will lower your dps and you can not do a thing about it, for example: Susanno will lock you up, Lakshimi will MC everyone during her long transition phase animation. Some classes are heavily punished by these things, like BLM who will see his buffs fall without being able to do a thing, and others will fell nothing but some downtime, and as long as the mechanic is over they are good to go, like RDM.

Now, since you talked about wow, I will do the same: Shadow priest has a talent called Surrender to Madness, in short this talent is a ridiculously strong buff that you can maintain for quite some time(but not forever), once this buff falls off you literally die(horribly) and can not receive a ress even if avaible. This is a perfect high risk = high reward situation, if mechanics and latency allows it this talent will turn you into the ultimate dps and you would feel like the guy bringing down the boss hp. But if mechanics would force you to stop attacking the boss, or run to the other side of the room where you would not be able to attack or some stuns/silences would be inevitable, in other words factors that you can not control, so the talent would end up backfiring and often you would prefer other talents over this so strong surrender to madness.

And I believe this was a good design, there is the difficulty that you can work around, and there is the inevitable punishment, for the first, I believe that classes that suffer heavily from the second should outperform in fights where the second is not a thing, as for the second, said classes should be outperformed by more flexible ones.

[Oscura]

I give examples, and devs own words, but hey you can have your opinion without any examples at all. Have a nice day.

Q5. It was explained that in Patch 4.0 the focus was to reduce the large DPS disparity, but certain jobs feel more reliant on player skill than others. Are certain jobs intended to maintain that difference?

A5. One of the main concepts of FFXIV is that “when playing a job, you experience the uniqueness of that job.”
Due to this, there is a difference in difficulty between the jobs, and it used to be that higher difficulty meant more DPS. We will be scaling down this factor.


That is pretty much the normal now. Many MMOs are doing this, it is not about difficulty it is about the class flavor. I mean what more do you want?

I guess you weren't around for the huge debate around hunts giving gear away for free in 2.x that was the same ilvl as Second Coil gear. Raiders constantly complaining their gear was "invalidated," and that their accomplishments meant nothing. Most people do not play this game for the sake of getting their butts kicked, period.

I did give an example as to why it's ridiculous to imply difficulty should have no reward. It is not my fault you are daft. The community has actually spoken out about this before. It's why hunts have never given gear or upgrade materials that equal raid gear ever again. I also find it very convenient that you just keep sidestepping my comparison to EX primals and raids, yet think it's totally ok to do for jobs.

SE needs to realize that "uniqueness," is a poor excuse. In a collection of silverware, the broken fork is unique. The broken fork goes into the trash. You cannot balance on uniqueness and feeling alone. No game does this. Even in your WoW example, it does not follow that philosophy at all.

While you may say it is "normal," for it to be that way, I've yet to see any MMO have this aside from FFXIV. Even in your example for WoW, you never specifically stated what it actually meant, you just stated one class was easier than another, therefore it is true. That is an incredibly vague and quite frankly meaningless statement. It's not an example at all. I don't play WoW, if you want to convince me or even support your argument stating something so obvious, that two classes have varying difficulty, is not enough. I have no way to determine whether or not the two classes perform equally, or that neither is rewarded more than the other as you so desire.

You seem to be misunderstanding my opinion. I am not saying that there should be no difficult jobs. I'm just saying that SE is going to find it impossible to convince the grand majority of people it's worth playing a job if it's difficult just for the sake of it.

As for playing a job just because you find it fun, that's all well and good, but when people start to underperform because of job difficulty, unluckiness with mechanics, or feel like they could contribute more to their group with a different class, then that no longer applies. There are plenty of people bent out of shape about DRG especially for this. Lots of "Why play DRG when SAM exists?" posts going around. Some people love DRG and find it to be a blast, but also have more fun actually contributing and doing something.

Now, since you talked about wow, I will do the same: Shadow priest has a talent called Surrender to Madness, in short this talent is a ridiculously strong buff that you can maintain for quite some time(but not forever), once this buff falls off you literally die(horribly) and can not receive a ress even if avaible. This is a perfect high risk = high reward situation, if mechanics and latency allows it this talent will turn you into the ultimate dps and you would feel like the guy bringing down the boss hp. But if mechanics would force you to stop attacking the boss, or run to the other side of the room where you would not be able to attack or some stuns/silences would be inevitable, in other words factors that you can not control, so the talent would end up backfiring and often you would prefer other talents over this so strong surrender to madness.

And I believe this was a good design, there is the difficulty that you can work around, and there is the inevitable punishment, for the first, I believe that classes that suffer heavily from the second should outperform in fights where the second is not a thing, as for the second, said classes should be outperformed by more flexible ones.

This is exactly what I want. In two different situations each type of job has more effectiveness and/or is stronger than the other. In situations classes with low risk can dominate during mechanic-heavy or movement heavy fights. In certain situations classes heavily influenced by mechanics and/or movement can dominate since the boss is sitting still or they're not required to move much. I thought that would just be common sense.

[Nezia]

Now... what IF this mana glitch was actually intended OR if not intended the devs decide to embrace it and make some modifications here and there. Would you guys enjoy playing around it?

It is a very unlikely scenario, ofc, but I though it would be fun to ask.

[Kling-Klang]

Now... what IF this mana glitch was actually intended OR if not intended the devs decide to embrace it and make some modifications here and there. Would you guys enjoy playing around it?

It is a very unlikely scenario, ofc, but I though it would be fun to ask.

I think it is interessting, I would not mind learning it then and trying to make the best use of it.
It would be cool if it became part of rdm gameplay maybe in 5.0 somehow in a way.

[Shug]

I think if they fix the mana glitch, which I'm positive they will, the outcry for nerfs needs to stop.

[Zetic]

I think if they fix the mana glitch, which I'm positive they will, the outcry for nerfs needs to stop.

Saying RDM dont need nerfs at all though is really unrealistic. I don't think necessarily their dmg needs to be nerfed i dont really care if they are best or not but the fact that they bring battle res to the group along with other utility makes them to strong. Honestly a simple nerf like not being able to dual cast raise would suffice make them at least use swiftcast for it like all other casters do. Being able to heal them self or someone for a decent amount doesnt really bother me at all since they would lose a lot of dps if they continued to try to do this in a fight.

The fact is they dominate other caster roles to the point of why bring a blm or smn when you can just take a rdm or two is a problem.