Please nerf RDM!

[Eydis]

So your answer to a debate you aren't even in, is to nerf them slightly because people suck at mechanics and can't get their clears? Sounds like you are in the "nerf RDM" camp.

Furthermore.... Those 6 minute clears are from groups of people that have tons of practice and generally have a rdm and a sam in there. Take 4 MCH into primal EX tell me the clear times.

The EX primals were an example, not an arguement. Want another one? We don't even know what savage will bring and people are screaming for nerfs, for all you know rdm and sam will be the reason for the clears. You don't know what kind of DPS checks will be needed.
Want another reason to stop screaming for nerfs? WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT BUFFS WILL HAPPEN TO THE JOBS!

[Galvuu]

snip

No... my answer isn't to nerf RDM. I was speaking in an hypothetical scenario because this whole exchange started with RDM.
I'm saying that in the case RDM- or any other job- does need to be nerfed, the argument that "some groups can't clear the content" cannot be used to stop that.
If it so happens that there are comps that cannot reasonably clear a piece of content, then that content is overtuned and needs to have its numbers adjusted.
If RDM and SAM turn out to be mandatory for Savage clears, then Savage is poorly tuned and there is a serious issue with job balance.
It's neither fair that a piece of relevant content (Savage) requires these two jobs, nor is it good balance.
And if that happens (that you need 2 or 3 specific dps jobs in your comp to clear Savage) I'll be very disappointed. We don't want an "AST in Gordias" situation for sure.
I'm not screaming "nerfs". I was discrediting your original argument against nerfing in general.

Also, those 6 minute clears are good evidence that if you practice and learn your job well you can clear. You don't need to kill a primal in 6 minutes to get your clear.
But if that's possible, with some effort, you can surely get your clear in the initially planned 11 and a half minutes.
If someone is consistently struggling with that, then perhaps they need to rethink their approach or practice their fundamentals.
Even then, it's not realistic to think everyone will clear every primal/savage.
It's never been this way, and it never will.

Not sure what you're trying to illustrate with your top 100 example either.
Sure, almost anyone that plays his job competently can get fed enhanced balances and have a dedicated cheese comp and end up there... what's that supposed to bear in this discussion?

(For what it counts, I don't have a group and got my clears in the PF, playing a generally unfavourable job this patch)
(... I always end up spending half my post count clearing up things I said. I never said "we must nerf RDM" or anything to that effect in any post ever...)

[Eydis]

If RDM and SAM turn out to be mandatory for Savage clears, then Savage is poorly tuned and there is a serious issue with job balance.
It's neither fair that a piece of relevant content (Savage) requires these two jobs, nor is it good balance.

This is exactly why I was saying don't nerf sam and rdm. Buff other jobs

The problem is people only see rdm and sam as high dps roles and rdm has utility and think, "well rdm needs to be nerfed." Which in turn fixes absolutely nothing.
Nerfing rdm dps makes it a mediocre dps with cures, you know like.... a healer with a bit more dps.

Embolden has already had the math run on it, the dps gain is minimal at best.... BUT!!!! People see rdm high dps, cures, and embolden and think "nerf rdm!"
Again you have a mediocre dps with cures.