Please nerf RDM!

[Rongway]

It's not the 6%rDPS buff.

Embolden is available every 120 seconds.

For 4 seconds, between 3/8 and 6/8 of the party do 10% extra damage.
For 4 seconds, between 3/8 and 6/8 of the party do 8% extra damage.
For 4 seconds, between 3/8 and 6/8 of the party do 6% extra damage.
For 4 seconds, between 3/8 and 6/8 of the party do 4% extra damage.
For 4 seconds, between 3/8 and 6/8 of the party do 2% extra damage.

Each affected person gets (4/120 * 10%) + (4/120 * 8%) + (4/120 * 6%) + (4/120 * 4%) + (4/120 * 2%) extra damage, which is a 1% increase.

Only 3/8 to 6/8 of the party can be affected.
(1% * 3/8) ~ (1% * 6/8)


0.375% ~ 0.75%

[Rhyn]

RDM might be performing well against the other casters atm, but it is in fact the only caster that is doing just fine. BLM has no utility and terrible mobility. It should be doing SAM damage (or better), but it doesn't currently. SMN has a whole mess of problems as I understand it and is underperforming atm because it got bungled up in 4.0. Once the fixes come in for the these jobs (and others like DRG, MCH etc), you'll see that RDM is just fine. Sure RDM can res, but so can SMN. You overrestimate how much ressing a RDM can do before he runs out of mana. Usually it functions just like SMN res. You swiftcast raise and move on with your life. RDM don't heal in any serious content. If he does, you are failing anyway.

A lot of the whining about RDM comes from the fact that it's easy and intuitive to play, which lets average players do really well with it, and as I assume you, dear reader, isn't parsing in the 99th percentile on fflogs where all jobs are played at their peak performance. This means in dungeons and such, red mage will seem to be overpowered to your average BLM or SMN that haven't perfected their rotation etc.

As has been mentioned, Embolden is not a great buff. 0.375% ~ 0.75% increased raid dmg if used on cooldown? That's equal to or very slightly better than MNKs brotherhood, a job which is considered to have minimal utility and should have high damage.

My basis is having WAR, RDM, DRG and AST at i309+ (with BLM on the way, 60+).

[Eydis]

You guys calling for a rdm nerf do realize that nerfing one of the higher end dps classes means you are cutting it that much closer on the rage timers for some fights, right?

FF11 had this same issue, people were screaming for geo nerf, when it happened it literally killed every job in dps. Now everything on FF11 is smn burn.

If you nerf sam and rdm or just one of the two jobs, do you really think the fights are going to get magically better? Half the groups out there can barely kill the current EX primals without hitting the rage timer with rdm and sam in party and you people want nerfs?

edit: in perspective, embolden really does blow for overall dps bonus, curing and raising drastically reduce dps. If anything you should be glad rdm deals that much dmg. To be able to raise all the dps that don't get out of the blinking box on the ground, or back heal the tanks when healers drop or can't keep up.
AND!!! can bounce back in the dps rotation... Come on, the good rdm out there are saving half the groups from a loss, the bad ones are just bad so they don't count anyway.

[Galvuu]

snip

You can kill the new primals in 6 minutes and the enrage timer is over 11 minutes...
If a group is "struggling" to kill these primals, they simply lack the fundamental knowledge to perform at a basic level... these "nerfs" and "buffs" are inconsequential to them because they can't play the job in the first place...

[Eydis]

snip

Why don't you tell that to the mass amount of people that are struggling to get their wins. Not me, I know the fights, I have countless wins and several ilvl315+ jobs. I frequently go into party finder and help people get their clears.

Nerfing a high end dps only makes the game harder for others.

Can't tell you how many players I have seen screwed over on their 40+ minute duty finder queue because someone jackass tank or healer got mad that some new guy didn't know mechanics and bailed on the first wipe.

Tell that 6 minute clear to the people that are struggling because nobody will stick around to help them, tell it to the people that can't clear the lvl 70 susano dummy in time and need to be carried by a rdm or sam.

[Galvuu]

Why don't you tell that to the mass amount of people that are struggling to get their wins.

Sure I do.
I join clear/practice parties all the time, and try my best to tell them what they're doing wrong- both in the fight and their job.
And I'm telling you this now because you brought it up as a justification against nerfs in general.
How is "there are people who don't know how to play very well, so we must leave a job that's (potentially) too strong the way it is" an argument?
I'm not even in the "nerf RDM" camp, but that argument is very silly.
"We shouldn't nerf X job because someone out there can't clear an EX primal"...?

Edit: Not to mention that literally 95% of the enrages I see are people dying constantly to mechanics (lowers dps) or completely disregarding their rotations. If MCH can clear these primals with 4 minutes of leeway in respect to the enrage, there's no way any slight RDM nerfs will make them unable to clear the new primals due to "enrages". This isn't Thordan (and even if it was, that argument would hold no weight whatsoever).

[Eydis]

So your answer to a debate you aren't even in, is to nerf them slightly because people suck at mechanics and can't get their clears? Sounds like you are in the "nerf RDM" camp.

Furthermore.... Those 6 minute clears are from groups of people that have tons of practice and generally have a rdm and a sam in there. Take 4 MCH into primal EX tell me the clear times.

The EX primals were an example, not an arguement. Want another one? We don't even know what savage will bring and people are screaming for nerfs, for all you know rdm and sam will be the reason for the clears. You don't know what kind of DPS checks will be needed.
Want another reason to stop screaming for nerfs? WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT BUFFS WILL HAPPEN TO THE JOBS!

[Galvuu]

snip

No... my answer isn't to nerf RDM. I was speaking in an hypothetical scenario because this whole exchange started with RDM.
I'm saying that in the case RDM- or any other job- does need to be nerfed, the argument that "some groups can't clear the content" cannot be used to stop that.
If it so happens that there are comps that cannot reasonably clear a piece of content, then that content is overtuned and needs to have its numbers adjusted.
If RDM and SAM turn out to be mandatory for Savage clears, then Savage is poorly tuned and there is a serious issue with job balance.
It's neither fair that a piece of relevant content (Savage) requires these two jobs, nor is it good balance.
And if that happens (that you need 2 or 3 specific dps jobs in your comp to clear Savage) I'll be very disappointed. We don't want an "AST in Gordias" situation for sure.
I'm not screaming "nerfs". I was discrediting your original argument against nerfing in general.

Also, those 6 minute clears are good evidence that if you practice and learn your job well you can clear. You don't need to kill a primal in 6 minutes to get your clear.
But if that's possible, with some effort, you can surely get your clear in the initially planned 11 and a half minutes.
If someone is consistently struggling with that, then perhaps they need to rethink their approach or practice their fundamentals.
Even then, it's not realistic to think everyone will clear every primal/savage.
It's never been this way, and it never will.

Not sure what you're trying to illustrate with your top 100 example either.
Sure, almost anyone that plays his job competently can get fed enhanced balances and have a dedicated cheese comp and end up there... what's that supposed to bear in this discussion?

(For what it counts, I don't have a group and got my clears in the PF, playing a generally unfavourable job this patch)
(... I always end up spending half my post count clearing up things I said. I never said "we must nerf RDM" or anything to that effect in any post ever...)

[Eydis]

If RDM and SAM turn out to be mandatory for Savage clears, then Savage is poorly tuned and there is a serious issue with job balance.
It's neither fair that a piece of relevant content (Savage) requires these two jobs, nor is it good balance.

This is exactly why I was saying don't nerf sam and rdm. Buff other jobs

The problem is people only see rdm and sam as high dps roles and rdm has utility and think, "well rdm needs to be nerfed." Which in turn fixes absolutely nothing.
Nerfing rdm dps makes it a mediocre dps with cures, you know like.... a healer with a bit more dps.

Embolden has already had the math run on it, the dps gain is minimal at best.... BUT!!!! People see rdm high dps, cures, and embolden and think "nerf rdm!"
Again you have a mediocre dps with cures.

[Eydis]

The answer isn't nerfs like everyone thinks immediately as soon as their favorite job is surpassed by another job. Other jobs need buffs, the dps classes need to be tighter than they are.

According to the initial DPS chart, there was more than a 1k difference in dps between the highest DPS (sam) and the lowest dps (mch). Some jobs flat need a buff. The original dps chart stated rdm was only in the 4th dps slot which actually sounds reasonable.
sam, blm, smn, rdm, nin, mnk, drg, brd, mch.
Granted this is all anecdotal evidence, but then again as many runs I have seen. It seems to be fairly accurate.

Go to FFlogs and you will see a list of various jobs in the top 100, mostly sam, understandably due to their lack of utility. In the top 100 you will see about the same nin, blm, and mnk as rdm, even a brd in there.