Please nerf RDM!

[Nite83]

Leave RDM alone. If a rdm HAS to heal/raise you have a bad healer or tank who can't mitigate properly, or an idiot standin in telegraphed mechanics resulting in a dps loss for rdm. Lower its dps and its a even nigger loss. I'd rather see rdm lose this utility than lose its damage. It also has no real mp regeneration.

[HoLoFoNo]

Leave RDM alone. If a rdm HAS to heal/raise you have a bad healer or tank who can't mitigate properly, or an idiot standin in telegraphed mechanics resulting in a dps loss for rdm. Lower its dps and its a even nigger loss. I'd rather see rdm lose this utility than lose its damage. It also has no real mp regeneration.

Y-you might wanna proofread your comment.

It's not about the fact that using heals and raise will cause it to lose DPS so its balanced, it's the fact that it CAN save parties which is an important part of its identity yes, but it can't also has a reasonably good offensive utility and be 2nd strongest dps with such a low skill floor and ceiling. Id rather they took away the damage part, because essentially its low risk high reward which is bad design. Low risk medium reward is fine.

[Bhearil]

Offensive utility with Embolden is worth around 0.75% raid damage increase including tank dps, hardly gamebreaking.

And rdm are in fact low risk medium reward already. both blm and smn outdps the rdm as long as mechanics let them. Is like asking that blm/smn should outdps rdm on heavy movement fights which are rdm forte, while being literally gods on caster static ones. Right now simply the fights are on rdm favor nothing else, is not like every fight coming is gonna be a game of dance dance revolution to every job. Garuda ex for example heavily favored ranged while giving the middle finger to melee

Blm are getting a few buffs anyways, so the point, unless they have a surprise on store, is already set in stone at least until 4.1 with omega savage info to make further adjustements

[HoLoFoNo]

Snip

0.75 isn't game breaking, but it is still reasonably good. That's more than BLM, SMN, MNK and SMN bring while only being weaker than SAM (and MNK at the highest levels).

The issue is, the dummy difference between BLM, SMN and RDM is so insignificant that RDM will pull away in pretty much any fight where you have to move a few times. RDM is also much less strict in every fight. Lower skill floor means the average player will be doing much better with RDM and lower skill ceiling where someone who is moderately good can get the most out of the class and do comparable dps to people who have absolutely mastered others.


Yeah they are buffing BLM (and I hope to god SMN too) but that won't fix that RDM is the only class that synergises with the physical classes which outnumber the casters 2/1. You are much more likely to have 3 physical DPS (and the tanks) than 3 casters (and tanks will be producing more damage than the healers). Couple that with the amount of damage it does relatively easily and the fact it can save runs in ways other dps can't and you have a textbook imbalance. It most certainly is Low risk High reward. If you couple RDM's damage and embolden-

Actually let me show you. These numbers are the 75th percentile for Lakshimi and Susano from about 50,000 parses:

SAM = 3604
RDM = 3371
NIN = 3327
DRG = 3141
SMN = 3122

On a regular 75th percentile susano run rDPS (about 18,750):

RDM + Embolden = 3511
NIN + Trick = 3645(!)
DRG + Litany and Dragon sight = 3,322 (kek)
+ disembowel on a 75th percentile brd (roughly 4% dps) = 3448
SMN + devotion = 3148

While difficulty is relative to player and fight, there is a fairly general consensus on which classes are harder and more inflexible and those that are easier and more flexible so factor that into these DPS numbers and then factor in any other utility (raises, defensive, agro management) to get an idea of the current balance. They wont nerf RDM but they better have some damn good buffs to make this more fair.

Note: I don't think they should balance around difficulty because thats relative as I and other have said, but they should balance around how the resources get affected by mechanics and how many mechanics savage is gonna have (because well, its savage) so classes that don't have timers on a lot of their buffs and resources shouldn't have high ceilings.

EDIT: Might aswell do every other class:

MCH: 3103
BRD: 3163
MNK: 3365
BLM: 3238

MCH + Hypercharge: 3313
BRD + all the shit BRD provides: 3556
MNK + Brofist: 3486
BLM + nothing lel = 3238

[Wavaryen]

Note: I don't think they should balance around difficulty because thats relative as I and other have said, but they should balance around how the resources get affected by mechanics and how many mechanics savage is gonna have (because well, its savage) so classes that don't have timers on a lot of their buffs and resources shouldn't have high ceilings.

I thought RDM had a mana bug that was letting them get more dps than they really should be?

Also, in chat today people was saying how they liked how much tougher a class is, they don't want all classes to be brain dead like RDM and Sam. They don't mind working harder for dps because that is fun to them. This is one of them things you can't win them all.

[HoLoFoNo]

I thought RDM had a mana bug that was letting them get more dps than they really should be?

Also, in chat today people was saying how they liked how much tougher a class is, they don't want all classes to be brain dead like RDM and Sam. They don't mind working harder for dps because that is fun to them. This is one of them things you can't win them all.

And I agree. It's not only about usefulness I know. I like the aesthetics, play style (unpopular opinion but I like having to be creative) and just general style of DRG. I like that it is punishing (I admit it is annoying to lose everything outside your control like on lakshimis ult or rocks in susano but things like finding the optimal lotd activation based on how fast your team is for susano is fun for me) but there's no point if I'm so much lower than everyone else. That's why I try not to judge based on play style or difficulty, the furthest I go is based on how much you can get away with in fights.

In regard to the mana glitch... If that is indeed an oversight and is the main reason for RDM shitting out dps (here's where not actually having class experience bites you in the ass huh?) then I apologize for every time I've said RDM needs a nerf. If someone could gimme some rough numbers regarding how much this might actually contribute in a fight I would appreciate it. Honestly, I was convinced the that the dev team fucked up with RDM like they did with many others but in the opposite direction or it was to entice people to play the shiny new classes for the $$$

[Fortune_Cookie]

But no Job should have a superior kit just because it's harder to pull off.

Strongly disagree. The one thing I want from an mmo is deep class gameplay that I can spend weeks, month and even years on perfecting. With this dev statement, why do I even bother?

All jobs should be easy enough to pick up, but at the same time have a high skill ceiling to push players to improve.

[Vulcwen]

TL;DR: Don't bother playing more difficult jobs. You don't get rewarded with higher performance, you only get more opportunities to mess up and perform worse as a result.

Considering their earlier balance statements aren't met at all, I'd not trust that phrase either. Perhaps they'll scale up the inverse :P

[Tussin]

i'm never a fan of nerfs. buff the other classes. and why punish people for playing a new class? it's an iconic class, it should be well off.

how would anyone like it to call for a nerf to a class you love to play? if you gut the dps or utility why even bother to play this game?

[Allyrion]

Strongly disagree. The one thing I want from an mmo is deep class gameplay that I can spend weeks, month and even years on perfecting. With this dev statement, why do I even bother?

All jobs should be easy enough to pick up, but at the same time have a high skill ceiling to push players to improve.

Why bother? Because you want to do that. I agree completely with the sentiment, but why do you need be rewarded by being superior at the end of it. Is the act of working on perfection not enough?

I sincerely don't get it. Especially because I know where that road leads. The community always comes to expect the best so having superior jobs means some become irrelevant. Then there will be complaints about balance cause there are bad classes. They are already trying to simplify the player skill gaps, so what will happen then? Homogenization and everything gets dumbed down.

Having deep, interesting classes/jobs that take work to perfect will only survive if it's alongside classes/jobs which can equal damage for less work. That's how you keep balance and relevancy for all while offering different play styles for wider range of skill levels.

Mastering a class with a high skill ceiling is a beautiful thing. It's clear you get that, so why do you need to also just be superior when reaching that point? Is it not enough to say to yourself, "I'm proud to have gotten this down."

Edit:
I do agree with the last statement, that another way to balance it is to have all do decently well while all have a good skill ceiling to work towards. But that dream has vanished when they specifically made an effort to lower the skill gap in 4.0.

But there are plenty who want to play easier Jobs and may only be able to. Giving them an option to stay on par with someone else who plays something harder isn't wrong. There are things like FFLogs where the competition for deeper Jobs really lie. You compete with others of the same Job which is a lot fairer.

And again, you get the natural enjoyment of perfecting something rather than pummeling some other Job that couldn't do better even if the player wanted to.