Please, NEVER nerf RDM!

[Vexander]

By itself, no there is no problem with a simple job. However, when that simple job does equal or higher DPS, has literally no drawbacks and outperforms similar/related DPS (while also bringing amazing utility), then yes there is a problem.

But RDM -does- have its drawbacks. Its DPS takes a hit if it bothers to heal/raise, as does its MP, which is a VERY finite resource. RDM has its drawbacks. The fact a good player won't have to deal with them, doesn't mean they're not drawbacks. Any good player knows how to play a job so that they don't have to deal with the drawbacks.

[KalinOrthos]

I already said I would not mind if they actually decide to gimp the raise and heal. Do you want RDM to make as much dmg as BRD/MCH who are support?

I think you are misunderstanding the point of having utility. Just because you personally don't use the tools available to you doesn't mean they aren't valuable.

[Kling-Klang]

I think you are misunderstanding the point of having utility. Just because you personally don't use the tools available to you doesn't mean they aren't valuable.

What tools do you mean? I raise people when they need it, use my buff and throw a heal if I really really have to.
Are there any other tools which suddenly appear and I just have not noticed?
Do you mean the cross class skills, which every caster has?

[KalinOrthos]

How I would nerf RDM to bring it a bit more in line:

-Reduce potency of Jolt, Verthunder, Veraero, Verfire, and Verstone. Not by a significant amount.
-Increase the damage of the melee combo and finisher, again, not by a significant amount.
-Change Verraise so that, if Dual-Casted, puts a 30 second recast timer on it.

These two changes will reduce overall DPS while still keeping it viable, increasing burst damage and rewarding effective Corps-a-Corps combo usage and cooldown use, and making RDM utility lessened somewhat.

[Vexander]

How I would nerf RDM to bring it a bit more in line:

-Reduce potency of Jolt, Verthunder, Veraero, Verfire, and Verstone. Not by a significant amount.
-Increase the damage of the melee combo and finisher, again, not by a significant amount.
-Change Verraise so that, if Dual-Casted, puts a 30 second recast timer on it.

These two changes will reduce overall DPS while still keeping it viable, increasing burst damage and rewarding effective Corps-a-Corps combo usage and cooldown use, and making RDM utility lessened somewhat.

I'm reminded of the old phrase, 'If it isn't broken, don't fix it.' RDM isn't broken. Fixing Jobs that aren't broken is how we break jobs. 'Gee, Ability Bloat is terrible. Let's consolidate buttons with upgraded spells just automatically upgrading.' Suddenly Summoner loses a DoT, and its AOE damage takes a hit.

[ADVSS]

How I would nerf RDM to bring it a bit more in line:

-Reduce potency of Jolt, Verthunder, Veraero, Verfire, and Verstone. Not by a significant amount.
-Increase the damage of the melee combo and finisher, again, not by a significant amount.
-Change Verraise so that, if Dual-Casted, puts a 30 second recast timer on it.

These two changes will reduce overall DPS while still keeping it viable, increasing burst damage and rewarding effective Corps-a-Corps combo usage and cooldown use, and making RDM utility lessened somewhat.

30 seconds? what in gods name. seriously? the 9 second cast isnt enough for you?

[SaitoHikari]

30 seconds? what in gods name. seriously? the 9 second cast isnt enough for you?

RDM should not be able to raise multiple players faster than healers can with no penalty besides a hit to their MP.

Leveling RDM myself, I am in agreement that it needs nerfs, because its damage is WAY too high for all the utility it has. But rather than a straight up nerf, I think a damage redistribution would be better. Here's what I'd do:

- Drop potency of Jolt II/Veraero/Verthunder by 25 (I don't include Impact/Fire/Stone since they're procs)
- Increase Enchanted Riposte/Zwerchhau/Redoublement potency by 40-50.
- Increase the amount of white/black mana that Impact generates from 4 to 6 so that it's more than a proc-based improved Jolt.
- Increase proc rate of Enhanced Scatter from 25% to 40%.
- Increase Fleche CD to 45 seconds OR drop potency to 300.

Rewards RDM that have effective management of the balance meter, especially where Manification usage is concerned. And if watching other RDM is anything to go by, most RDM don't manage said meter effectively.

Upon further thought, adding a 30 second recast timer to Verraise wouldn't work since it's a spell and not an ability. If the devs converted it to an ability, it'd become an instant cast skill, which also means it'd no longer have anything to do with the doublecast mechanic. What's probably more fitting is that Verraise should require 10 White Mana to cast. The actual MP cost of the skill should be slashed in half to compensate. RDM still gets to retain its ability to raise multiple players better than healers can, but doing so will result in a MASSIVE personal DPS loss, so it should be a last resort thing. As it currently is, I see healers yelling at RDM to raise first, and that doesn't rub me the right way.

Fleche should also be nerfed in some fashion. I dunno about you guys, but a 420 potency oGCD on a 30 second cooldown that has absolutely nothing to do with their meter management (or any other skill, for that matter) is disgustingly high, and would be a pretty big contributing reason why RDM has higher practical damage output compared to SMN and BLM. For comparison, Bard's Sidewinder (another oGCD that doesn't have anything to do with a meter) has 260 potency on a 60 second cooldown, AND it requires both DoT effects to be on the enemy.

Its the launch of an expansion. The odds of all classes being balanced is pretty poor. So, what you do is, you plan for the future. Introduce the buffs needed to bring the classes to the same levels of performance or close enough that they can compete with one another. Sacrifice the balance of existing content. Then, for the first major patch, 4.1, you tune the new content around the now balanced classes.

Very simple process.

Power creep is bad because some things are just so broken that no amount of buffing other classes will fix the issue without causing design problems for the rest of the game. I witnessed this concept taken to the extreme in a different game, and it decimated the community in the long term.

I don't believe RDM is THAT broken to discourage power creep mentality outside of Fleche and its uncanny ability to raise better than healers can, though. On the other hand, Astrologian Balance is definitely one of those things.

[NorthernLadMSP]

But RDM -does- have its drawbacks. Its DPS takes a hit if it bothers to heal/raise, as does its MP, which is a VERY finite resource. RDM has its drawbacks. The fact a good player won't have to deal with them, doesn't mean they're not drawbacks. Any good player knows how to play a job so that they don't have to deal with the drawbacks.

Lol DPS taking a tiny hit on the very rare occasion you have to raise someone is not a drawback. Stop kidding yourself.

[KalinOrthos]

I'm reminded of the old phrase, 'If it isn't broken, don't fix it.' RDM isn't broken. Fixing Jobs that aren't broken is how we break jobs. 'Gee, Ability Bloat is terrible. Let's consolidate buttons with upgraded spells just automatically upgrading.' Suddenly Summoner loses a DoT, and its AOE damage takes a hit.

Ability bloat was an actual issue. Most classes were getting too many buttons that they had to keep track of (see: Ninja). Culling those abilities caused some classes to suffer, and that's just bad design. As for the red mage issue, it IS broken; because of everything that they bring to the table with high damage and such few drawbacks, why would you ever think about bringing a SMN or a BLM over RDM? And that doesn't scream "broken" to you? How deluded are you?

[Vexander]

Ability bloat was an actual issue. Most classes were getting too many buttons that they had to keep track of (see: Ninja). Culling those abilities caused some classes to suffer, and that's just bad design. As for the red mage issue, it IS broken; because of everything that they bring to the table with high damage and such few drawbacks, why would you ever think about bringing a SMN or a BLM over RDM? And that doesn't scream "broken" to you? How deluded are you?

Like I said, RDM is fine on its own. Its the other jobs which need to be brought up. RDM isn't Broken. BLM and SMN are. Even before we could play the game BLM and SMN players were looking at potencies and new abilities and knew immediately their classes had been broken. If two lights won't turn on, but the third one will, the solution isn't to break the third light, its to fix the other two.