Take it easy, Tanks.

[RickiFake02]

I am INCREDIBLY sick of this. If I am using cooldowns and spamming my biggest heal and you STILL die, then you need to pull less mobs. If I cast Esuna to get rid of a DoT on you, and that one break in heals is enough for you to die, then you need to pull less mobs. If I have to dodge AoE attacks and heal you and you die because I had to move, then you need to pull less mobs. It does NOT get you through the dungeon faster if you die because you pulled too many mobs. Pull. Less. Mobs.

[Cynfael]

I appreciate tanks who gauge their pulls based on party comp and other factors.

If our DPS are both AoE powerhouses, pulling only 3 mobs at a time is a waste of time; conversely it is also a waste of time to pull multiple groups if the DPS are comparatively weak in AoE damage. Even a WHM will be hard-pressed to carry the party by AoE damage if the tank requires excessive healing, so the DPS have to be able to keep up with large pulls as well.

Aside from tanks who pull too much for their gear and/or skill level, a problem I'm encountering is tanks who are super twitchy and dance around for no apparent reason, forcing DPS and the healer to reposition constantly to avoid AoEs and auto-cleaves.

[OcieKo]

Also it seems like you get a lot of tanks who basically just count mobs in mass pulls not considering. Pulls with a lot of AoEs need to be smaller, everyones numbers go down because dodging is a big thing. Considering if you have a large quantity of the "super trash" mobs in a pull, think the 2 packs between the laser gates in AM, all the little ones are just super garbage that can get melted. On the other hand the 5 packs between boss 1 and 2, should probably be done in 3-4 pulls depending on group.

Sometimes I wonder why 24/7 speedrunners just dont quit the game, if you hate playing so much that you want it over asap, Alt+F4, its super fast.

Either way, as long as everyone keeps moving you can do any dungeon in 15-25 minutes pulling 1-2 packs at a time, and without all the stress.

[kartana]

A smart tank would notice if it's too much. Often times it's just not enough DPS to burn them down quickly and not even the healer's fault.

I am INCREDIBLY sick of this. If I am using cooldowns and spamming my biggest heal and you STILL die, then you need to pull less mobs. If I cast Esuna to get rid of a DoT on you, and that one break in heals is enough for you to die, then you need to pull less mobs. If I have to dodge AoE attacks and heal you and you die because I had to move, then you need to pull less mobs. It does NOT get you through the dungeon faster if you die because you pulled too many mobs. Pull. Less. Mobs.

/thread

[KingFrost]

Leveling a tank and healer. Seems like 2 packs at a time is the way to go. It's usually enough enemies to make AoE effective, not enough to have single target DPS feel insignificant/TP starved, and give the healer enough time to DPS a little and not lose their minds.

Then again I'm leveling War and Whm, the former has an effective 40% reduction at will or for a whole dungeon with their CDs, and the latter is swimming in heals.

[Tridus]

Sometimes tanks pull too fast because they're afraid the dps or healer will pull for them. I've seen many dps in particular do this, either because they are impatient to get through the dungeon they were in queue so long for that they actually forgot they were in queue, or because they have tank class leveled and think they know what their tank can and can't handle better than they do. There isn't really a simple answer, but successful communication is the best way to know what to expect from each other.

That one has an easy answer. Everyone else back off and let them die. They'll figure it out eventually.

[Leigaon]

A smart tank would notice if it's too much. Often times it's just not enough DPS to burn them down quickly and not even the healer's fault.

That's one of the issues, people in general do not like to admit to their own mistakes. We are a production chain and only as strong as the weakest part.

I took WAR up to 70 first, loved it. I pulled, but I'll admit I pulled slow. The mindset I've stuck to is that remember, these AoE's other jobs have are either not incredibly strong or they're nerfed after so many mobs. In most cases pulling so many doesn't help because they're being hit by a 50 / 80 % potency reduction.

For me, normal or not always large pulls means that the healer can make up for any DPS loss due to the other two not being up to the task. Maybe they're under geared, maybe they don't know their rotation. If things take too long to die and I let a healer go loose, they'll even it out.

[Drkdays]

That one has an easy answer. Everyone else back off and let them die. They'll figure it out eventually.

That's a possible answer, but drama can do worse than slow a dungeon run, it can kill it.

[RopeDrink]

Here's how I roll.

-- Phase in, wait for Protection, set healer as focus. All moving / clearly present? Good, off I go.

-- Double pull, assuming I'm confident in my gear vs content. Sometimes I could do more/less - but this is a test phase. If the Healer hasn't spoken then I need to figure them out for myself, much like a Healer needs to get to know their tank, and both need to know the DPS. No point being stingy with mitigation CD's, they make the run go smoother.

-- Looks comfortable and/or are they DPS'ing? We can probably grab more. They're an AFK healbot and/or struggling on actually healing? Same or less. The mistake tanks make is assuming a Healbot means it's safer to pull more, when in reality it simply means that big-ass pack is wailing on you for free and taking a lot longer to die (depending on the DPS alone, of course). More often than not, if you're doing dungeons, you have 1-2 DPS who are there for gear ie. not optimal, so having 1.5 DPS and a no-DPS healer with a triple pack means MP will be burned, downtime adds up and it's quite possible a wipe may happen unless you're some sort of immortal god (and even then, that is slow).


In short, I intend to figure out the group by the time the 1st/2nd group is dead. When I log in as Healer, too many times has a tank darted off for a double pull, sometimes even without waiting for Protection. All this tells me is that they are confident -- which doesn't actually provide any meaningful information in terms of whether we'll get through the day without wasting time running back after an embarrassing wipe.

It doesn't matter WHAT role you play - get to know your team capabilities. It takes one pull (usually) and will lead to smooth sailing. If you're a DPS pulling for the tank, or a tank grabbing triple packs without knowing your Healer, or a Healer who can't find their DPS buttons during downtime, or the healing button during 'oh shit' time, then these things are better learned before you get to the 20minute mark and your fifteenth flame-war sentence before someone rages and nothing gets completed.

[Lucke]

I err on the side of caution and ask the healer what they want in terms of pull size. I always use cooldowns though. More often than not, I get healers that want me to pull big and 99% of the time, it's fine. If we die, I'll apologize and pull less. Some pulls you don't wanna pull big, like the Dogs in Ala Mhigo. If I pull everything up to the dogs, we'll prolly wipe since there's just so many bad guys eating my face, no matter how good the healer is, they can't keep up even with me using god mode and cooldowns.