Take it easy, Tanks.

[technole]

So what are the pug tanks that will always irk the good healers?

The ones who only pop cooldowns after the big hits come. Oh no now i'm going to die, i better hit something. More like you wouldn't have been in that position if you were proactive. Don't you know what damage mitigation means? Did you know you can end up using Hallowed Ground 2x or more in a dungeon if you actually play proactive instead of reactive? What a concept! You might even make it into a decent raid group!

Or you have that sly one who says "i never had that problem" when it came to cooldown management.

Well, you probably had stand-around zero dps healers babysitting your bad play so you've been carried all along playing mediocre or terrible. You may have had two red dps too, that had some decent damage slack so that helps drag along your subpar skills.

Now the tables have turned where the healer is doing more damage than one red dps, whom can't even put a goad or buffs on the other red dps to help them put out more damage. As the other one is a huffing through their TP trying to AoE kill that pack down. Meanwhile you are taking more and more damage, cause the stuff just won't die and the green DPS is trying to pick up some slack in both healing and damage.

No one is asking for optimal play 24/7. Just you may not realize how bad you are playing until later on.

[Jade3173]

Was leveling my DRK the other day and went through Sirensong, my friend was the WHM and we had BRD and BLM as the DPS. So ya know, I do bigger pulls. Then my friend had to leave for some IRL stuff and we get a random WHM that looked to be in Bardam's gear so after we down the 2nd boss I ask if they're okay with a larger pull, DPS has been good and we have some nice AoE options. WHM just says "as you wish" which to me felt like he expected things to go badly but I was bored to I did the big pull anyways. Gather everything up and then proceed to dump most of my MP in Dark Arts Abyssal Drain and just watch my HP jump back up. Of course went through my cooldowns as well. Once the dungeon was over, left with 3 commends. Oh, also had Grit on (amazing I know)

[AxiomPITCH]

snip

As if people don't already understand what you said in this post. I thought that it is completely obvious that it's a team effort. Your post is a wall of assumptions, quite frankly pretty much entirely drivel, a hodgepodge of things that people who have a brain would already know. I play tank, healer, and dps jobs in all content. I know how to play this game. I just expect others to pull their part. Hence, the thread is over.

People like you, Maeka, need to learn that some people really do just need to "git gud." Not just whiny healers but also the bad tanks too. Simple as that. Stop complaining and FORCE the tank to live. I've done it in every single SB dungeon, I've done it with bad tanks who don't use cooldowns, I've done it with bad tanks who lose aggro. We have the tools, be creative and use them. If you're mad that you're pulling "extra work" or "carrying" then swap to another job. It's on you if you want to complain about the bad tank pulling everything. If you can't handle it, fine, say something. If the dps can't handle it, that's when you SHOULD say something. If things aren't dying quick enough, why even mass pull.

Honestly I don't even waste my time in parties like that anymore though, I just leave and go do something else. I use DF and PF and none of my parties have been as nightmarish in SB as people here would have you believe. It was worse at the end of HW. There's a common denominator in each and every one of these cases, and it's not the randoms that people here are grouped up with.

[KingFrost]

Anyone else feel a good amount of the controversy on this forum, and in the community in general, stems from people wanting to save a minute or so at best in content?

From being in tank stance too makes you bad, to PF parties (From farming to learning) not wanting a non meta pick, and all the way to pulling hella enemies in a dungeon that, due to damage drop off and lack of healer DPS, likely ain't even that much more efficient if the healer is only curing you (Just leveling to 60 I've ran with tanks already who are in level 50 gear in a 57-59 dungeon double pulling and dying if they lose a mob to me and I get interrupted).

It's strange how little thought for others and their feelings people can happen in a cooperative game. You snubbed a MCH in a party for what, a potential DPS carry or a few seconds in a farm? Gratz, you've made a player sad over a few seconds! This whole discussion here is a debate over... I don't even know. I'm mainly going with my gut, bu two packs at a time is quick, effective and fine for everyone. Hero pulls with no communication is just epeening because "the best players play fast and loose, flirting with death, to save a little time in a cooperative MMO."

Like, everybody... chill. XD

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Also I find it laughable that you're gonna stop mega-pulling, but yet turn DPS stance on because you don't trust the healer. That's just lulz. You're going to pull fewer mobs so you survive easier, but yet you're going to turn DPS stance on to make yourself more squishy (and make it more likely DPS will pull threat off of you) at the same time.... you're not really solving anything by doing that. If you leave Tank stance on, guess what? The healer could probably throw in some extra DPS and you won't be in danger whatsoever of dying on single pulls.

I know how to cover myself in all pulls, manipulate my CDs effectively, and when I need to hop back into Defiance for a quick IB/SC+Equil top off if need be. Small pulls give me more personal control over my health, and tank stance has no effect on the damage I take at all. I don't need to be held back by a weak healer.

[Jade3173]

and tank stance has no effect on the damage I take at all.

technically speaking, your tank stance has the chance to reduce the damage you take with that "amazing" 10% Parry increase. Obviously this is no Grit/ShO but it does effect the damage you take

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

technically speaking, your tank stance has the chance to reduce the damage you take with that "amazing" 10% Parry increase. Obviously this is no Grit/ShO but it does effect the damage you take

Assuming I ever have the wrath to use it. I largely burn it ASAP on SC on big pulls, especially when zerked.

[Maeka]

Honestly? My biggest problem?

Just let me regen some f***ing mana. Jesus Christ.

Well, they can't do THAT, because they want to get through the dungeon ASAP! If they pull as many groups as possible, they might shave 30-45 seconds off the whole run... oh wait, they gotta wait for mana after the pull, nullifying any time they could have saved, lol.

Don't you just love that mentality? "WE CAN AoE BURN THESE DOWN FAST!" ... after the pull... the healer goes "OOM, need mana." and they spend more time than they gained by multipulling waiting on the healer's MP.

And yes, to answer that other person's question about healer Mana, I play WHM and I have had tanks run me down to 20% or less and that was after Lucid. I have had tanks that required endless Cure2s which blows through mana like nobody's business. Cure 1s won't cut it, and other than Benediction and Tetragammaton (which are one-off things), there's really nothing else I can use (well, ok, Assize too but that's a drop in the bucket and I usually save that in case a DPS also takes a hit since I sure as heck don't have time to give anybody else a heal).

The tank literally goes from 60% down to 30% back up to 60% down to 30% about as fast as I can cast Cure2 when they do this. I can only hope and pray that one of my Cure2s crits so I can at least throw a Regen on there to start building a bit of a buffer, OR, the DPS can knock off a couple mobs to lessen the strain.

It simply isn't worth the extra hassle, you don't really gain that much extra time, UNLESS everybody is Item/Level Sync'd. Then, yes, ok, you can do multiple pulls. The healer's heals will heal for more per heal, the tank will take less damage and have a larger HP pool, and the DPS can burn the mobs down a lot faster.

RE:AxiomPITCH: So basically, what you're saying, is to never talk about the problem, never try to educate people as to why they shouldn't be mass-pulling in bad situations, etc? That seems less-than-productive. SOME people already knew what I posted, but it was my hope that maybe somebody who just mass pulls because everybody yells at them to (and not because they want to/think it is the right time to) might happen upon this thread, see my post and might learn a few things. If you already know this stuff, then fine. Move along. But don't stifle the conversation needlessly.

[Fernosaur]

I can't believe I'm gonna say this but I kind of agree with Thunda_Cat_SMASH on this one, just for one reason that has been barely mentioned in this thread: If the DPS are bad at AoEing or are simply just trash in general, a big pull is gonna be worse for everyone because things will die super slow and both the healer and the tank are going to end up lacking CDs and dying. In this scenario, it's better to just pull small, hop on DPS stance and help as much as you can. If the healer is also DPSing, well, they'll have more time for it. If not, at least you're doing what you can to contribute the most.

Tank and healer AoE damage isn't as good as before, so relying on these two roles to burn trash down ain't gonna cut it if the two DPS aren't up to snuff.

[Kyrph]

I think it is alright to have larger pulls as a tank if you are prepared for it. Within the first couple of pulls in a dungeon you can get the feel for how skilled you party is and if you are able to go for those bigger pulls without a chance of your party dying. If you have strong dps that can quickly kill mobs than with a CD you can probably make a large pull and be alright. On the other hand you may have a skilled healer that can quickly top you and keep you alive through those pulls. It is all about being able to quickly evaluate your party and pull based off that. Also wait for healers to get mana =P!