Take it easy, Tanks.

[Taika]

Honestly? My biggest problem?

Just let me regen some f***ing mana. Jesus Christ.

Which healer are you playing? I have literally not once had to have my party wait for my MP in any SB content on AST or WHM despite DPSing on every pull. I sometimes run out or low if I get overenthusiastic with Gravity / Holy or the pull is very difficult to heal and I have to use all my resources, but then I just tone it down a bit at the beginning of next pull.

[Galaktica]

Which healer are you playing?

When you have a tank that doesn't like to use CDs, DPS who keep getting hit, or DPS who take forever to kill anything. It's not hard to run low. All of them together? That's super fun. Throw in a rez or two because everyone wants to stand where they shouldn't? Ooooooh boy, I'm in heaven. -_-

I'm glad your experience has been as nightmarish as mine though. That's cool.

[Maeka]

Honestly? My biggest problem?

Just let me regen some f***ing mana. Jesus Christ.

Well, they can't do THAT, because they want to get through the dungeon ASAP! If they pull as many groups as possible, they might shave 30-45 seconds off the whole run... oh wait, they gotta wait for mana after the pull, nullifying any time they could have saved, lol.

Don't you just love that mentality? "WE CAN AoE BURN THESE DOWN FAST!" ... after the pull... the healer goes "OOM, need mana." and they spend more time than they gained by multipulling waiting on the healer's MP.

And yes, to answer that other person's question about healer Mana, I play WHM and I have had tanks run me down to 20% or less and that was after Lucid. I have had tanks that required endless Cure2s which blows through mana like nobody's business. Cure 1s won't cut it, and other than Benediction and Tetragammaton (which are one-off things), there's really nothing else I can use (well, ok, Assize too but that's a drop in the bucket and I usually save that in case a DPS also takes a hit since I sure as heck don't have time to give anybody else a heal).

The tank literally goes from 60% down to 30% back up to 60% down to 30% about as fast as I can cast Cure2 when they do this. I can only hope and pray that one of my Cure2s crits so I can at least throw a Regen on there to start building a bit of a buffer, OR, the DPS can knock off a couple mobs to lessen the strain.

It simply isn't worth the extra hassle, you don't really gain that much extra time, UNLESS everybody is Item/Level Sync'd. Then, yes, ok, you can do multiple pulls. The healer's heals will heal for more per heal, the tank will take less damage and have a larger HP pool, and the DPS can burn the mobs down a lot faster.

RE:AxiomPITCH: So basically, what you're saying, is to never talk about the problem, never try to educate people as to why they shouldn't be mass-pulling in bad situations, etc? That seems less-than-productive. SOME people already knew what I posted, but it was my hope that maybe somebody who just mass pulls because everybody yells at them to (and not because they want to/think it is the right time to) might happen upon this thread, see my post and might learn a few things. If you already know this stuff, then fine. Move along. But don't stifle the conversation needlessly.

[Xtrasweettea]

Tired of dealing with tanks that pull too much but can’t seem to use those Defensive cooldowns?

Are you falling asleep because the tank doesn’t pull big enough groups for you to be entertained?

Do you need to take a nap after a stressful dungeon run because the tank decided to tank in DPS stance the whole time and you felt that you had to go through you MP pool to keep the tank alive?

Well, I have a handy dandy new cure for what ails you.

It’s called “Initiative!”

Fresh off the line from Jim Co., “Initiative” can cure all of your Healer and Tank Relationship problems!

Don’t want the Tank to do large pulls, take a sip of “Initiative” and request the tank to do smaller pulls instead.

Is the Tank not using cooldowns? Glug down some “Initiative” and tell the tank that if they don’t do cooldowns, you can’t help DPS and that the run would take longer.

Are you about to load into DR again for the third time today? Stop and take some “Initiative” first! Then, drop out of DR and use PF to request the type of Tank you would like to group with. Once you got your Tank, then proceed to DR together!

If you can’t find a tank that you could group with in PF, no problem, take an extra dose of “Initiative” and become the tank yourself! Now no one can hold you down!

“Initiative” can also help with those pesky DPS that you have to group with too!

DPS got keep standing in the red? Take some “Initiative” and tell them to stay out of the red or they will cause the fights to take longer due to DPS loss! DPS hate loss and longer dungeon runs!

“Initiative” can help you remove stains from your carpets, help you clean your house, and help you exercise.

“Initiative,” for when you want to take responsibility for your actions, introspect, and accept some blame for your decisions to use DR solo!

“Initiative!” Take home a case today!

[Galaktica]

“Initiative!” Take home a case today!

Yeah, "initiative" only really works if anyone is willing to listen or anyone actually bothers to join your PF. Soooo...there's that.

[Xtrasweettea]

Yeah, "initiative" only really works if anyone is willing to listen to anyone actually bothers to join your PF. Soooo...there's that.

Yeaaaahhhh... you got me there.

[technole]

So what are the pug tanks that will always irk the good healers?

The ones who only pop cooldowns after the big hits come. Oh no now i'm going to die, i better hit something. More like you wouldn't have been in that position if you were proactive. Don't you know what damage mitigation means? Did you know you can end up using Hallowed Ground 2x or more in a dungeon if you actually play proactive instead of reactive? What a concept! You might even make it into a decent raid group!

Or you have that sly one who says "i never had that problem" when it came to cooldown management.

Well, you probably had stand-around zero dps healers babysitting your bad play so you've been carried all along playing mediocre or terrible. You may have had two red dps too, that had some decent damage slack so that helps drag along your subpar skills.

Now the tables have turned where the healer is doing more damage than one red dps, whom can't even put a goad or buffs on the other red dps to help them put out more damage. As the other one is a huffing through their TP trying to AoE kill that pack down. Meanwhile you are taking more and more damage, cause the stuff just won't die and the green DPS is trying to pick up some slack in both healing and damage.

No one is asking for optimal play 24/7. Just you may not realize how bad you are playing until later on.

[Jade3173]

Was leveling my DRK the other day and went through Sirensong, my friend was the WHM and we had BRD and BLM as the DPS. So ya know, I do bigger pulls. Then my friend had to leave for some IRL stuff and we get a random WHM that looked to be in Bardam's gear so after we down the 2nd boss I ask if they're okay with a larger pull, DPS has been good and we have some nice AoE options. WHM just says "as you wish" which to me felt like he expected things to go badly but I was bored to I did the big pull anyways. Gather everything up and then proceed to dump most of my MP in Dark Arts Abyssal Drain and just watch my HP jump back up. Of course went through my cooldowns as well. Once the dungeon was over, left with 3 commends. Oh, also had Grit on (amazing I know)

[KingFrost]

Anyone else feel a good amount of the controversy on this forum, and in the community in general, stems from people wanting to save a minute or so at best in content?

From being in tank stance too makes you bad, to PF parties (From farming to learning) not wanting a non meta pick, and all the way to pulling hella enemies in a dungeon that, due to damage drop off and lack of healer DPS, likely ain't even that much more efficient if the healer is only curing you (Just leveling to 60 I've ran with tanks already who are in level 50 gear in a 57-59 dungeon double pulling and dying if they lose a mob to me and I get interrupted).

It's strange how little thought for others and their feelings people can happen in a cooperative game. You snubbed a MCH in a party for what, a potential DPS carry or a few seconds in a farm? Gratz, you've made a player sad over a few seconds! This whole discussion here is a debate over... I don't even know. I'm mainly going with my gut, bu two packs at a time is quick, effective and fine for everyone. Hero pulls with no communication is just epeening because "the best players play fast and loose, flirting with death, to save a little time in a cooperative MMO."

Like, everybody... chill. XD

[Fernosaur]

I can't believe I'm gonna say this but I kind of agree with Thunda_Cat_SMASH on this one, just for one reason that has been barely mentioned in this thread: If the DPS are bad at AoEing or are simply just trash in general, a big pull is gonna be worse for everyone because things will die super slow and both the healer and the tank are going to end up lacking CDs and dying. In this scenario, it's better to just pull small, hop on DPS stance and help as much as you can. If the healer is also DPSing, well, they'll have more time for it. If not, at least you're doing what you can to contribute the most.

Tank and healer AoE damage isn't as good as before, so relying on these two roles to burn trash down ain't gonna cut it if the two DPS aren't up to snuff.