Tanks and super pulls

[Valenth]

The key part is to communicate, it will always be whenever you do something with other human beings. When entering the dungeon and after greeting, just ask "big or smaller pulls?" This doesn't even have to be the tank asking, anyone can do. Just do it before you engage, not after. Just communicate properly. It will save a lot of frustration when you know something's coming (or not).

[kamikrazy]

Part of what makes a high quality tank is the ability for them to accelerate the pace of the dungeon with no deaths. Pulling too quickly is the sign of a bad tank, as is pulling too slowly. A good tank pulls like a car driving on ice--starting off slow, and only moving as fast as is safe and without risk. Unfortunately many tanks that I've seen since my time leveling as a dps in dungeons, I see almost every tank seems to be in this massive hurry and ends up wiping the party, getting butthurt, and leaving. This has happened three times just this weekend. Its pretty aggravating. However, I don't think this is soley something to blame on these players.

What I believe is a big problem is that many dps feel as if they are being forced to tank due to the absolutely abysmal state of dungeon queues and the extremely low exp gains that are available without them. Fates are too demanding for someone to solo (SB monsters have waaaaaaay too much hp), DoW/DoM levequests have been REMOVED in Stormblood, PvP and PotD give extremely low xp. I decided I wanted to finally hit 70 on a dps class, and I am facing 1-3 hour queues, and often times only to find myself entering in-progress dungeons. Its ridiculous.

The exp gain should be turned up significantly in PotD and PvP to allow dps players to level up more reliably. I feel this is directly related to the quality of tanks, as many that I've talked too and examined seem to be players who primarily dps, but are unable to play the game because the queue times make content and progress unavailable for the majority (dps is the majority) of players.

I'm saying this as a tank main who has only been dealing with this for a week or so, and I'm already fed up and frustrated with it. Imagine how far gone those dps players are who have made the transition into doing a role they hate just to be allowed to play the game at all. Its awful.

[GDFletcher]

Well the problem as stemmed from player attitudes, I am quite happy to pull groups at a time or 2 groups at a time, but even to some players this is "too slow" and it is never the healer asking for larger and larger pulls, it is usually the impatient deeps. I am lucky that I have mitigation as PLD I built my PLD around it and able to sustain a lot of punishment, but I have seen WAR and DRK do similar pulls and they are a massive strain on healers because news flash the new dungeon from 70 were not coded for people to go off on one and pull the entire dungeon.

Once player mentality returns to a normal level you wont get tanks pressured into the massive pulls. This is not a confidence thing that we dont, but when you are constantly being told your reported for being a considerate tank and abused you can see why they just rush off now and mass pull because they just dont want the aggression of impatient players.

It is a shame and it is one of the main reasons now I hate the duty finder on tank, I tend to get my dungeon out of the way with FC mates and then later on in the night when our FC is a little more ghost town like I will end up with a couple of pug players doing runs for a guildie that comes on late(ish)

Another issue around this is DPS pulling mobs for the tank, this is a massive grind gears moment, and I saw a forum post about this subject, I have come to the conclusion if your on a squishie dps role and you run off and pull mobs, those mobs are yours I will just keep the healer up best I can. There is no reason for a deeps to be pulling for anyone.

I am starting to wish SE would just start to hide mobs behinds doors that dont open til the 1st set of trash as been cleared to re-educate the player base that have spent more time levelling in Palace of the Dead and have no idea what normal dungeons are like.

[Leigaon]

No one is willing to do anything because no one cares or agrees on what is a good middle ground to be done, so there's not much to discuss. Much like those Healer DPS threads, the answer is there just no one follows or cares. Don't know which but take your pick.

Bottom line is this, it's communication. Whether it's via actions or typing it in. I have a hard time accepting that someone can't afford an either dollar usb keyboard, but it's true so not everyone can talk.

You're all there to complete the duty in a faster. Problem is no one wants to admit or take any responsibility half the time. DPS / Healer / Tank, you all have your standards that you need to meet. From there, you can go beyond that and continue to grow until one of the three areas becomes your bottle-neck. At that point you need to stop and adjust to the parties potential.

Tank pulls 3 mobs, things go down. Tank pulls 6 mobs, things go sour. Why? Multiple reasons, and can they be adjusted. Thing is it's always someones fault other than your own..or so the story goes.

No reason for a DPS or healer to pull for the tank. The reason they aren't pulling maybe because they aren't comfortable taking on 6 mobs, or 9. In which case that's fine, the DPS is more equipped to deal damage to that mob size but the tank isn't skilled enough. As a result, you need to pull back, so the weakest link. If the DPS can down 6 or 9 mobs but the tank can't hold hate, and people die. How is that any quicker?

If a tank can hold those but the DPS can't take them down in a good amount of time, MP gets strained and people could die. Not quick either.

If I can only hold 3 mobs and you as a DPS can take down 6, okay you're better than me, and I am not that great. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, I'll pull my 3, or they can leave. Next dungeon I might pull a lot knowing I can handle more, but the healer can't handle it.

tldr; ....aliens.

[Opus]

Was doing Dzemael Darkhold today and did 3/4 to full first wall-to-wall pull depending on healer and DPS make up. Then I got a BLMand thought. Oh wow he’s in for a treat. I pulled all the way and then all he did was Fire 1 and Blizzard. No rotations. Healer and I had no problems. I’m i320 DRK, didn’t even have to pop Living Dead. But it’s excruciatingly slow.

So sometimes it’s shitty DPS that makes big pulls awful. No guarantees unless you go with a premade and no bads.

[Okamimaru]

Tanks, healers, dps... no matter the role if one of the 3 can't handle large pulls it doesn't make things faster... If you kill 3 mobs and it takes 3 minutes to kill them or you kill 3 mobs one at a time at a minute each then it really doesn't matter does it? Into fact it could be argued that smaller pulls allow guages to build up faster allowing for better resource management and burst openings for the bosses... which in turn makes runs faster...

[Saiah]

Tanks, healers, dps... no matter the role if one of the 3 can't handle large pulls it doesn't make things faster... If you kill 3 mobs and it takes 3 minutes to kill them or you kill 3 mobs one at a time at a minute each then it really doesn't matter does it? Into fact it could be argued that smaller pulls allow guages to build up faster allowing for better resource management and burst openings for the bosses... which in turn makes runs faster...

It depends wether the DPS uses aoe.


For instance: lets say fire 1 does 300 damage to a single target.and fire 2 does 150 to all targets. Using fire 2 on a group of 3 mobs will make it do 450 damage in total. Thus making it an efficient dps increase and making the run quicker. This effect is amplified if theres even more mobs.

If DPS only uses single target dps, then big pulls dont really matter if you add up the time of killing each individual mob and running from pull to pull. In a mass pull without aoe you'd just add all that together without benefit. And only puts an unnecesary strain on the healer. So if im in a party with a BLM and a SMN, then it would be a waste of time and DPS potential to not to multi pulls.

Wether the healer can handle it or not is a different issue. Some tank tend to push them to their limit with pulls that are sometimes absurd. Personally I rarely pull more than 2 groups at once unless im certain thats its manageable. Like a third pull consisting of weak aoe fodder.

[dragonseth07]

It depends wether the DPS uses aoe.

AoE DPS not being a given means this is the darkest timeline.

[bswpayton]

AoE DPS not being a given means this is the darkest timeline.

Tell me about it

[Okamimaru]

playing as a SAM it sure doesnt FEEL any faster in big pulls vs smaller pulls... aoe damage drop off is a bitch