Tanks and super pulls

[Laerune]

It's simple...

Tank to healer: what's a good pull size for you?
Healer: if you use cooldowns, and hold agro pull X amount.

At this point the tank should be aware of party composition (can dps aoe while maintaining enough tp/mp to clear the pull?)... remember casters can't goad melee and vice versa....

Not rocket science

Indeed, but something that I have experienced leveling my tanks the past few weeks, is that 80% of the time whenever you ask randoms something, they wont respond. The moment you pull 1 group or you pull 2-3 groups and there is a wipe or the run is too slow, this is when they start communicating.

Whenever I tank, I always check gear and if they have the sprout icon. I also ask them if they want big pulls or small pulls. If there is no respone, I decide the pace of the run (roulettes = big pulls etc.), but if there is a respond, then I pick the option that the majority agrees with.

[Namingwayfinder]

As a melee DPS, I have to say, I detest when tanks do massive pulls as I tend to feel like I just have to stand off to the side and watch everyone else play. I'll either end up out of TP from doing all the AOE I need to do to help take mobs down, or there will be doing many telegraphed attacks from the enemies that there's no way for me to stay in the group and AOE without dying to the damage.

Plus, let me tell you how much fun it is to wait 35 min in queue to just spam Death Blossom.....

Well, once you have doton available honestly, you're wasting time with Death Blossom. Death Blossom is great when all the enemies are at 5% health. Otherwise, you have to remember that NIN is a singke target dps class with aoe abilities.

[Namingwayfinder]

As a melee DPS, I have to say, I detest when tanks do massive pulls as I tend to feel like I just have to stand off to the side and watch everyone else play. I'll either end up out of TP from doing all the AOE I need to do to help take mobs down, or there will be doing many telegraphed attacks from the enemies that there's no way for me to stay in the group and AOE without dying to the damage.

Plus, let me tell you how much fun it is to wait 35 min in queue to just spam Death Blossom.....

Well, once you have doton available honestly, you're wasting time with Death Blossom. Death Blossom is great when all the enemies are at 5% health. Otherwise, you have to remember that NIN is a single target dps class with aoe abilities.

[Linx0r]

Seriously just ask your party members at the start. If someone is uncomfortable then adjust. People have different comfort levels and skill. It IS an MMO and a TEAM effort. Play as a groupe- don’t be a douche

[Mavrias]

Well, once you have doton available honestly, you're wasting time with Death Blossom. Death Blossom is great when all the enemies are at 5% health. Otherwise, you have to remember that NIN is a single target dps class with aoe abilities.

Please don't spread misinformation like this. In large pulls, you should be using deathblossom every gcd until there are about 3 enemies left. Its filler while you use doton, katon, ten chi jin, and hellfrog medium.

[Namingwayfinder]

I understand your point from a numbers perspective, but this thread is specifically about super pulls, and if your tank is super pulling, each enemy that dies is less stress on both the healer and the tank, which will actually make the pull go faster from my experience. Once the number of enemies is down by half, the healer can actually focus on throwing up a bit of damage, and the tank can start switching to damage stance, since they are more likely than not in their tanking stance to survive super pulls. Does it really help the party as much as eliminating enemies with your single target skills (including using Armor Crush to keep your Weaponskill speed buff up) in between Doton, Katon, and Hellfrog Medium? In my opinion, it helps less. But opinions are like ears, everyone has them.

[TaiyoShikasu]

Ninja is a much better job to be playing as if the tank is pulling everything compared to say dragoon where your AOE combo and Heavy Thrust is a quarter of your TP, Invigorate has a long recast time, the healer is not an Astrologian and nine times out of ten the other DPS doesn't have Goad if they're melee.

Bard is absolutely amazing though. Especially if your DoTs are critting super frequently.

[Namingwayfinder]

Ninja is a much better job to be playing as if the tank is pulling everything compared to say dragoon where your AOE combo and Heavy Thrust is a quarter of your TP, Invigorate has a long recast time, the healer is not an Astrologian and nine times out of ten the other DPS doesn't have Goad if they're melee.

Bard is absolutely amazing though. Especially if your DoTs are critting super frequently.

Yes, it is, because it does have aoe weaponskills and abilities that don't use it's TP and instead uses a mechanic unique to their class. I didn't actually know the Dragoon aoe combo takes up THAT much of their TP, although I only pay attention to TP if playing Machinist or Bard. If only bards had a way to spread their DoTs around easily, kinda like the Summoner spell when you spread your DoTs at half the time.

[Sieben79]

There is nothing wrong with DRG or NIN AOE. Even without BRD/MCH support or Goad. There could be problems if you're the only one who use his AoE skills while a megapull.
It's better for the tank and healer if a group of enemies dies at the same time while some def buffs of the tank are still useable and the healer has the mana to heal the incoming damage.
No need for singletarget action, maybe some debuffs for special enemies which should die faster due the aoe than the only auto attacking mobs. In mind comes the the bird in temple of the fist.

[RopeDrink]

As a DPS-WHM, large pulls are in my favour. If I see a tank making a bee-line for, say, that quad-pull at the start of Skalla (after the wall goes down), then I'll be beside them ready to unload QC/Holy, AIII and either prepare for heal-spam or, if they're exceptionally tanky, Air/Haste and spew Holy x5.

The truth about mega-pulls is that their success is dependant on everyone, not just on the tank or the healer. If the tank is mindful of mitigation, healer is capable of maintaining them (especially if they can contribute damage in-between), and the DPS are competent (preferably with some AoE options and not the type to eat mechanics for free), then only gear/limit comes into question. If the Tank is squishy and/or the Healer isn't comfortable and/or the DPS is really low (gear/experience/lack of AoE) then everyone suffers.

To me the thread sounds more like a problem with the attitude of certain tanks (just blame the Healer) than it is about super-pulls. Sorry, but at the end of the day (when content gets to a point where you have nothing to do but repeat it endlessly), pushing for a speedier method isn't the main problem. If you have a problem with this or aren't comfortable, by all means say so before the dungeon really starts -- otherwise welcome to roulette, a place where 8/10 of its participants have seen this dungeon far too many times and are probably used to speeding through them.