input delay kills the game

[Shurrikhan]

Just need to say...

Skills like Benediction don't suffer from "input delay". They are specifically designed not to generate an effect until the end of their animations. Look at Demolish or Venomous Bite. They apply the effect after the strikes have struck or the arrow has sunk in, not on the first blow or while the arrow is still in flight. The same is true of most defensive effects, which will activate at some portion through the animation, no sooner than half way and most not until its completion.

(Benediction then further suffers from both your own ping and the receiving player's ping, both. This part there is no fix for apart from more server locations to be nearer a greater percentage of the various players and their computers. Admittedly, XIV performs poorly on that front.)

[Vhailor]

Just need to say...

Skills like Benediction don't suffer from "input delay". They are specifically designed not to generate an effect until the end of their animations. Look at Demolish or Venomous Bite. They apply the effect after the strikes have struck or the arrow has sunk in, not on the first blow or while the arrow is still in flight. The same is true of most defensive effects, which will activate at some portion through the animation, no sooner than half way and most not until its completion.

(Benediction then further suffers from both your own ping and the receiving player's ping, both. This part there is no fix for apart from more server locations to be nearer a greater percentage of the various players and their computers. Admittedly, XIV performs poorly on that front.)

Two points.

(1) Instant-use abilities should apply their effects immediately. Games have to prioritize functionality over realism when there's a distinct clash between the two. Could you imagine if a first-person shooter was released where clicking the mouse button meant a quarter-second delay for your character to pull a trigger? Indeed, FFXIV already prioritizes functionality over realism in other areas, which is why in a boss fight, whether or not you get hit by AoE is dependent upon where you are when the cast finishes - not when the animation goes off.

(2) The Benediction issue (and others) are due to how SE designed their netcode. When a client machine and the server aren't in sync, the server-side state is the trusted one. This isn't typically the case in online games, particularly where PvE is concerned. I don't know if you've played Guild Wars 2, for example, but it has movement-heavy combat that feels more or less seamless. If you run up behind a monster that is currently moving, you'll hit it when it feels like you should it it. In FFXIV, if you're a melee character trying to hit a moving monster, good luck. That's an example of trusting server-state versus client-state in virtually all cases.

I'd go further and argue that SE shouldn't have taken this approach. When people compare FFXIV's responsiveness to games like WoW, or GW2, or TERA, this is what they're talking about. And it doesn't just affect combat - even things like Gathering are prone to it. Ever notice the slight delay between when you try to harvest a point, and when your character actually begins the action? That's the wait time for your client machine to send a packet to the game servers, receives confirmation of the action, and then is told by the server to engage the animation. That's bad design. The action should begin immediately, controlled entirely by the client, with a packet being sent once to the server indicating what you did. The server should briefly check how reasonable the action is based on your character's state (to avoid hackers gathering on, say, a White Mage), and then it should send back the result of your action. If you have high latency in a scenario like this, it might take a couple of seconds to see your reward from a given swing - but in the meantime, you can initiate another swing or two, and not waste your time sitting at the mining point. The server backlog will catch up when it catches up.

That would be my preference anyway. It's closer in line with what other major MMOs do, and the responsiveness difference greatly improves the feel of the game. Nobody likes wrestling with a user interface.

[XenabelleS]

It makes Titan rather difficult.

As in, if I don't move the second that the line appears under me I'm going to be knocked off even if I run to the other end of the platform when the ability goes off. I get knocked off at the angle that I am at, rather than the angle of the ability which is how I know it is something lag related. Similar actually to most AOEs - if I'm not out immediately I will still get hit by it several seconds later and when I'm no longer anywhere close to where the cast box was.

On the AOE's it is annoying. Titan's one shots are entirely frustrating especially when I am the healer.

[Shurrikhan]

(1) Instant-use abilities should apply their effects immediately. Games have to prioritize functionality over realism when there's a distinct clash between the two.

(2) The Benediction issue (and others) are due to how SE designed their netcode... example[s] of trusting server-state versus client-state in virtually all cases.

Absolutely agreed. I was just pointing out that these two skills, though all the more crucial due to their "all HP" / "all damage" effects, aren't unique, and one may actually be losing out on mitigation from Rampart, Sentinel, and so forth as well without realizing it if working under the impression that effects in this game are actually instant. They're painfully slow in many, many cases.

So far the only example I know of that points out true immediacy is GL3. It refreshes, ranks up, or fails to do either due to a miss (or desync-crippled Rockbreaker) when the animation has barely even started, even if that means detecting for actual hits during the queuing period.

[Rakhabit]

Two points.

(1) Could you imagine if a first-person shooter was released where clicking the mouse button meant a quarter-second delay for your character to pull a trigger?

Planetside 2 actually has a sniper rifle that has a .2s charge up time after you pull the trigger before the round fires. :P

[Kaethra]

Planetside 2 actually has a sniper rifle that has a .2s charge up time after you pull the trigger before the round fires. :P

Found the rebel capitalist.

[Krotoan]

Planetside 2 actually has a sniper rifle that has a .2s charge up time after you pull the trigger before the round fires. :P

try sniping with Mei =]

.. or playing any "twitch" game from somewhere that's always at least 2k miles from any data center. =[ I gave up on titan extreme when it first came out because my states delay is just too bad to play. Wasn't able to pass it till they softened it up a little and moved the data center.