Thread: 4.05 DPS Ranking Expectations

Originally Posted by Galvuu

snip

Thank you Galvuu.

People have got to understand that while QoL fixes are important, the performance of a class is paramount when balancing. Do you think the people who get the highest percentile on classes like SMN and BLM are struggling to play the class? People will always play the class they like even if they have to jump hurdles. But when the class doesn't reward them then that's when they will draw the line. Performance CAN be affected by clunkiness (such as DRG losing eyes setting back their 'burst' by 70 seconds instead of starting where they left off: in the case of lakshimi you basically spend 40 seconds extra) but it also can be affected by poor adjustment of something as simple as potencies or offensive utility.

Someone said that utility should be limited to what the class brings that isn't the aim of its role, such as the Balance or verraise. I agree, heavy duty utility should be left to BRD and MCH really and if they want to go that route with RDM sure but I don't think they should, RDM shouldn't become a niche subhealer or some shit. Every other class should either have something that is defensive or restorative (like mantra or apoc) or even agro management is fine (shadewalker, smokebomb) or be limited to 1 party buff. It makes it so much easier to balance for the devs, and doesn't piss off the players who have had their class changed from what it was.

Imagine turning BRD back into bowmage, but taking away all the utility and just making it a BLM with a bow. Yeah some people would love that but some people do play classes to be supportive, best not to change which classes can do what all the damn time like (DRG) and especially don't make a class strong but keep its utility while being adaptable (NIN).

Originally Posted by Galvuu

The distinction between a caster, a melee physical dps and a ranged physical dps should be inconsequential for balancing.
You look at what a job brings- utility (defensive and offensive) and personal dps, and weight those out.
A ranged and melee job with the same utility should have the same dps in a raid setting (use statistical metrics to verify this).
A caster and melee with similar utility would also follow suit there.

What?? Are we just going to ignore that casters are punished less by mechanics than melee and ranged physical even less than that?
People liked this post, I am confused.

Originally Posted by Chronons

What?? Are we just going to ignore that casters are punished less by mechanics than melee and ranged physical even less than that?
People liked this post, I am confused.

I say we are punished more because AOEs seem to target us more while melee generally aren't targeted from my observations. It seems next to the boss is generally the safest spot other then the occasional little aoe he tosses around him.

Originally Posted by Ferrasper

I say we are punished more because AOEs seem to target us more while melee generally aren't targeted from my observations. It seems next to the boss is generally the safest spot other then the occasional little aoe he tosses around him.

So MNK had been unfairly out dpsing BLM for like all of 2.0/3.0?

Originally Posted by Chronons

So MNK had been unfairly out dpsing BLM for like all of 2.0/3.0?

I would say so.

Originally Posted by Ferrasper

I would say so.

But they haven't really though have they? 2.0 BLM was far more simple, it had very little room for failure within the rotation. 3.0 BLM was a monster. Coupled with Foes, Casters were pretty much the top dps throughout the entirety of alex. Check the logs if you don't believe me. Even with the anti caster meta of 3.4+, casters were still at the top even if FFLogs if full of padding. Casters have always been powerful especially due to how potent foe's was.

Take what I'm about to say w/ a grain of salt or whatever, but as someone who has leveled a BLM to 70 and a SAM to 70, I felt like my BLM was definitely punished more in fights. I main SAM because I found it much more fun to play, and typically I can always find a way to DPS the boss. Maybe that's because I think I'm better than your average player? I dunno. I didn't play HW and I didn't play ARR, but as it stands now I feel like Melee isn't punished as much as casters are. Just my 2 cents though.

Originally Posted by HoLoFoNo

But they haven't really though have they? 2.0 BLM was far more simple, it had very little room for failure within the rotation. 3.0 BLM was a monster. Coupled with Foes, Casters were pretty much the top dps throughout the entirety of alex. Check the logs if you don't believe me. Even with the anti caster meta of 3.4+, casters were still at the top even if FFLogs if full of padding. Casters have always been powerful especially due to how potent foe's was.

I was more or less answering that way because his response was snarky, so my response was being snarky back. If you want my serious answer, as Galvuu and you said 2.0 was boring and simple as hell to do, so I wish we could have done a little more single target in it, but overall I was fine with it. As for 3.0, I honestly wasn't there for most of it because that is when I took a year break from the game because of job related reasons. With 4.0 though, I do strongly believe that we should be doing more then melee because of how short our windows are and how so easily it can get screwed up.