Thread: 4.05 DPS Ranking Expectations

Originally Posted by Galvuu

That's actually not very useful at all though. It's about as useful as SAM's slashing debuff (it's useless). Neither should have much weight in balancing.

Neither have any utility in balancing. Defensive utility means as much as healer DPS when balancing personal DPS according to yoshi p.

Originally Posted by Elnidfse

Neither have any utility in balancing. Defensive utility means as much as healer DPS when balancing personal DPS according to yoshi p.

Slightly off-topic, I kinda hope his comment on that was the politically correct PR stance.
He can't honestly say something like that after Gordias is still fresh in many of our memories lol
(Although that further validates the original point... I don't think he should disregard Mana Shift/defensive utilities in genral outright though...)

Originally Posted by Galvuu

Slightly off-topic, I kinda hope his comment on that was the politically correct PR stance.
He can't honestly say something like that after Gordias is still fresh in many of our memories lol
(Although that further validates the original point... I don't think he should disregard Mana Shift/defensive utilities in genral outright though...)

Square is never going to release a raid tier on the level of Gordias again. They already said to expect it to be around creator tier. And defensive utilities should be disregarded. They're fine and all for progression but are absolutely worthless when you have a boss on farm or are going for speedkills. That raise and cure mean little to nothing when we shift back into solo tank solo healer strategies that just burn a boss down.

it's still a utility, like apocastasie...without forget the fact that blm have lucid dream that wipe them hate, when no melee (outside the dragoon have this chance) even the ninja with his tool for control aggro can simply give the aggro of the next attack he will do.

people seems to forget a lot of the toolkit and simply want them main to be the strongest, i will repeat it, blm mustn't be at the same level than the melee... a lot of fight force the melee to loose dps, not a lot of them allows a uptime decent. without forget the fact that you have a better visibility of the fight from ranged what the melee can't really have....

anyway, it's a pointless talk, Yoshida have talk age ago about the balance and said that ranged will never be the best dps.

finally a very very very important point.... in the final fantasy series, the best dps.... is the summoner, the only one that can wipe a whole group in one attack, not the black mage that simply the caster dps that have a good versatibility because of the weakness of the enemy. often it's not even the best jobs for get a max of damage dealt in the group.... just saying.

Originally Posted by silentwindfr

it's still a utility, like apocastasie...without forget the fact that blm have lucid dream that wipe them hate, when no melee (outside the dragoon have this chance) even the ninja with his tool for control aggro can simply give the aggro of the next attack he will do.

What? All casters have apoc and lucid... And all DPS have diversion in their cross skills to deal with aggro. How is this even relevant? You can't count cross skills as job utility.

Originally Posted by silentwindfr

blm mustn't be at the same level than the melee... a lot of fight force the melee to loose dps, not a lot of them allows a uptime decent.

Like literally - wtf am I reading? Any(ANY) movement will force BLM to lose dps, meaning most mechanics will make them lose dps. It probably the most punished by movement job of them all, can't even compare to any melee.
Now does it mean BLM should have as much dps as SAM? Probably no, but it should be comparable to SAM and not SMN lol.

Originally Posted by silentwindfr

finally a very very very important point.... in the final fantasy series, the best dps.... is the summoner, the only one that can wipe a whole group in one attack, not the black mage that simply the caster dps that have a good versatibility because of the weakness of the enemy. often it's not even the best jobs for get a max of damage dealt in the group.... just saying.

And how exactly is this very very(very) important?

because you are coming asking something that will not only break the balance of the game but are trying to get something that was never the case... when was the last time that blm was better than the melee in terms of dps? never...

do the blm loose dps because he is not positioned right? do he need to run away from the boss and return to the boss (like on exdeath from the thunder 2) or must move from the position because of some mechanic that simply cover a part of the boss leading to a net loose of dps? do the blm need to pay attention to where the boss look for be sure to not take a cleave....

strangely no... the trouble with the blm is they cry because they can't dps all the time without be bothered... but that part of the jobs.. that what will decide which is a good and a bad blackmage, the one that know how fast return to the fight.

do you see the melee cry because the boss force them to move away and loose the time to return to the fight... or the monk cry because a boss vanish and make them loose greese lightning? no they deal with it. blm have become worst than children... they want all handled. no difficulty and simply be able to toss tons of damage without be bothered... but hey great news is not wow, mage will not be the best dps. because well it's one of the jobs the less affected by the fight... try melee you will see.... even fight like suzano and lakshmi are a pain for us... all the time i loose positional or must move from the boss loosing buff and such...

Originally Posted by Galvuu

Snip

While I appreciate the effort, you're reading way too far into my comment and getting excited over nothing.
It was just a comment about melee losing less uptime when AoE is dropped underneath them and some mobile mechanics melee can keep their said uptime if the conditions are right. - 90% of what you said was irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Elnidfse

snip

Let's take it one point at a time and lets remember that no one is saying that the current or historical state of the game is the correct state. In fact, we're here discussing what needs to change.

Stuns, gaols and stops affect all dps. Yes, the severity of the punishment for getting a stop, gaol or stun at the wrong time is improtant. However, almost every job has something that goes haywire when their rotation is interrupted. MCH is not special in this respect.

In regards to putting too much focus on 100% uptime, on the contrary, I'm saying that you have to look at the whole picture. Ranged or melee. Cast bars or no cast bars. Easy to play or hard? How much party utility? Peak DPS potential? MCH is ranged, no cast bar moderate at best difficulty with significant party utility. They check all the right boxes so why should they do as much damage as those that are missing some boxes?

My hypothetical scenario doesn't account for SMN because all I'm trying to illustrate is that however inconsequential you think those abilities are, they are an advantage other classes don't have. If you have two equally qualified candidates for a job except one speaks spanish, you take the one that speaks spanish even if the job description doesn't have spanish in it. Why? Just in case. Duh.

Finally, the caster bit. You seem to be getting yourself turned around. I'm not talking about the current state of things. I'm saying the current state is wrong. BLM SHOULD out dps samurai on a dummy but perhaps be equal in an actual fight. As for SMN, I said they need a buff. However, they have dots, raise (no utility when comparing to SAM but utility when comparing to RDM??? convenient???), devotion, pet dps. If they get some QOL changes (usually translates to a dps buff), they would be as appealing as SAM.