The Raid community as we know it

[Pori_Dessu]

This thread is just making me think of this old meme... Which is not a good thing...

[RegnumMagik]

This thread is just making me think of this old meme... Which is not a good thing...

This post just sums up this thread

[AxlStream]

Why are you guys still arguing against how Xeno does things for his group? Are you part of his group? No. Are you in a group that can even compete with his? 99.99% of you, no. Leave the dude to do his own thing that doesn't affect you at all and that you're likely to never group with him.

[Arutan]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[KisaiTenshi]

Reality would like a word with you. South Park is absurdly popular, as is Deadpool and a whole host of "filthy unwatchable" entertainment.

South Park is mean-spirited Political Satire. See also Charlie Hebdo. The problem is that it's viewers are often not smart enough to see the satire and think it's just punching a target because the target is high profile.

Comedians will tell you that you always punch up, those in power, politicians, religious figures, CEO's, basically anyone who uses their power in abusive ways, because if they raise their hand to punch back, it shows you that the person with power will readily abuse it and should be stripped of it.

Deadpool on the other hand is a special kind of narrative that still has to hold back or get an "adults only" rating and thus can't even be marketed.

I would love to see where an individual has ever been kicked for not having specific achievements or minions. Please. >.>

Seems like every time we have a thread about Raiders bringing toxic behavior outside their static safespace we inevitably have people looking at the lodestone to try and prove the other person hasn't cleared something. Raiders clearly do look at the parser sites as a reason to kick people, so let's not pretend it's not happening.

Except sometimes individuals need to be pointed out when they make a mistake. Broadly saying "do mechanics" when it's just one person messing up isn't going to help, because that person may not even think its them (or they could, and just not care, but that's an entirely different situation). If you have someone who is falling severely behind in DPS, if you are knowledgable in the job they play, you should always directly extend advice to them on telling them how they can improve; otherwise, it's possible they will never learn.

Yet, who's fault is it? Finger pointing often comes with the price of "You not doing so hot yourself"

If you have a healer who has the arrows pointing at them to stack, and the healer stops moving to let the DPS catch up, and half the DPS don't even move, who's at fault? If we keep failing the mechanic because half the party won't move, even after being asked twice, then that has to become a vote abandon because nothing is going to let that party even get past that phase.

You can offer all the advice in the world to other players, but if people are just playing healer or tank to get a quick queue and don't actually care about the mechanics, then it creates a miserable experience for everyone.

Being a bully about it just makes people want to get rid of you, even if you are right. I'm sure we've all had the party where once we kick the rude person blaming others, now suddenly everything moves smoothly.

[Nixxe]

South Park is mean-spirited Political Satire. See also Charlie Hebdo. The problem is that it's viewers are often not smart enough to see the satire and think it's just punching a target because the target is high profile.

Comedians will tell you that you always punch up, those in power, politicians, religious figures, CEO's, basically anyone who uses their power in abusive ways, because if they raise their hand to punch back, it shows you that the person with power will readily abuse it and should be stripped of it.

Deadpool on the other hand is a special kind of narrative that still has to hold back or get an "adults only" rating and thus can't even be marketed.

It doesn't really matter. Profanity isn't exactly a turn off for most people. The entire idea of swear words in particular is ridiculous, as each of them has unoffensive synonyms for both connotation and denotation, which means the only distinction in practice between offensive and unoffensive is the permutation of letters you use.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

If you have a healer who has the arrows pointing at them to stack, and the healer stops moving to let the DPS catch up, and half the DPS don't even move, who's at fault? If we keep failing the mechanic because half the party won't move, even after being asked twice, then that has to become a vote abandon because nothing is going to let that party even get past that phase.

The healer.

If you have a stack mechanic and it's completely safe to run behind the boss, you do so. Expecting the melee DPS to disengage the boss and lose several GCDs worth of damage because you can't be bothered to run into range of them isn't their fault. Now if there's an aoe puddle or you're locked in place. That is a different scenario.

[HyoMinPark]

Seems like every time we have a thread about Raiders bringing toxic behavior outside their static safespace we inevitably have people looking at the lodestone to try and prove the other person hasn't cleared something. Raiders clearly do look at the parser sites as a reason to kick people, so let's not pretend it's not happening.

The last time I saw anything remotely close to what you're describing was when someone was trying to tell other people that they were the best player with regards to their job, had the best melding plan for their gear and it was obvious it was the best because they were constantly out-DPSing other party members (even though, if I recall, they didn't use or have access to ACT), and was bragging about having cleared a12s multiple times, yet people could find no evidence to support their claims. If someone is going to brag about how they're the best at something or have the best melds or are constantly out-DPSing everyone else because they've cleared X content X amount of times, I expect evidence to back up said claims.

Same thing for when I am farming content and suddenly we can't queue in Duty Complete because there's someone with a bonus trying to sneak in. I expect people to provide evidence that they have cleared (primal totem, savage floor pages, weapons, gear, etc.).

However, that bragging was occurring here on this forum, so tell me how that is even remotely close to you saying people kick them out of parties in-game? Hyperbole doesn't help your arguments.

The healer.

If you have a stack mechanic and it's completely safe to run behind the boss, you do so. Expecting the melee DPS to disengage the boss and lose several GCDs worth of damage because you can't be bothered to run into range of them isn't their fault. Now if there's an aoe puddle or you're locked in place. That is a different scenario.

Going to echo Bourne for the answer to your question. If the healer has a stack mechanic and can freely move into melee range where, more than likely, the majority of the party is going to be, then they should do so. It's a DPS loss to have melee and the OT disengage from the boss to stack with a ranged player because they can't be bothered to move in, especially if it's safe to do so.

Now, if the healer was stunned and marked for stack, then it would be up to the party to adjust accordingly, and they would be at fault.

[missybee]

...become a vote abandon because nothing is going to let that party even get past that phase.

The "raid community" doesn't do raids with randos until they have it on farm and the loot lockout is removed.

Like, is it really so scary to get Xeno or another one of his ilk in faceroll content like Omega normal? Chances are, they aren't even going to say anything to you. They might talk shit about you on stream or wordlessly kick you, but that is probably the extent of it...and that seems REALLY mild and nowhere near as traumatic as the people in this thread are making it out to be.

Basically, if you aren't doing extreme primals or savage Omega, your fears are pretty much irrational and unfounded. Very few people give any shits about your sub-par performance in an expert roulette, including these oh-so-scary "elitists."

[YitharV2]

Seems like every time we have a thread about Raiders bringing toxic behavior outside their static safespace we inevitably have people looking at the lodestone to try and prove the other person hasn't cleared something. Raiders clearly do look at the parser sites as a reason to kick people, so let's not pretend it's not happening.

In general when people bring up logs it's for a reason. Basically what HyoMinPark said.

For example today someone joined a certain Discord revolved around class discussion, FF discussion and s***posting with no class role assigned to himself (which takes just a few seconds if he just read the rules) just advertising his stream, so naturally people were upset with him.

And he said this.

i never needed to talk about my class because i know about the ones i like to play

That's when someone posted a link to his logs which did not reflect favorably on him.

I honestly think you have a skewed perception of the raiding community, because in my opinion, the true elite are chill people. I'd call my friend one of them except he's not in a static; he plays mostly solo but he's definitely near the top of the playerbase when it comes to skill level. People have chimed in here where Xeno has been helpful in PF and whatnot. The way he acts on stream is probably because he's with his friends and as a stream he needs to entertain people and some people like that sort of persona.