Bards cant hear their own songs or voice?

[Shurrikhan]

The job of the bard is not to support the party, it's to contribute as a DPS like every other role. We queue as a DPS, having our crit buff and DH makes sense. It's like a dragoon not getting litany.

Note that other jobs similarly do not benefit from their own effects. Divine Veil, Brotherhood, and the old Battle Voice are all raid buffs that do not benefit the caster. Similarly, there are many buffs that cannot be self-cast, only allied-cast. It's not like this is without precedent.

Apparently SE decided that they wanted Battle Litany to be usable in solo play and to be balanced between personal and raid consideration (e.g. one might pop it earlier or later to maximize raid damage than they otherwise would to maximize personal damage). They decided Battle Voice need not be. Simple as that. Your throughput is unaffected either way; unless SE directly intends to buff Bard, what they'd give by making that CD and those effects part of your personal rotation or multipliers as well, they would take from other potencies.

[Katsuragi_]

Disregarding balance, I'd argue that as a bard, you're there to inspire your comrades not so much yourself. This is why I don't have a problem with bard songs not affecting the bard. Battle voice however perhaps should.

And you actually have a mechanic to increase your own crit rate already.

[Warlyx]

Note that other jobs similarly do not benefit from their own effects. Divine Veil, Brotherhood, and the old Battle Voice are all raid buffs that do not benefit the caster. Similarly, there are many buffs that cannot be self-cast, only allied-cast. It's not like this is without precedent.

brotherhood helps the monk too

divine veil yeah but makes sense , paladin are all about protecting the weak and whatnot ....

battle voice needs to buff the bard too period , isnt gamebreaking at all and like the OP said , the bard sing the song to inspire every party memeber him/herself included :/

[Berethos]

battle voice needs to buff the bard too period , isnt gamebreaking at all and like the OP said , the bard sing the song to inspire every party memeber him/herself included :/

It's not about being game breaking or not, it's about the particular balance the developers want.

By asking for us to benefit from BV, what you're basically asking for is for us to be able to do more damage. If we are underperforming based on the target range the developers want us in, then such a change could be something they might do.

From most discussions I've seen, however, Bard isn't underperforming based on the damage and offensive utility they bring to the group (which ideally is balanced, or you end up with a job that always get sidelined)...which means asking for us to be affected by BV is in effect asking us to trade damage/benefits from somewhere else to get that benefit instead...

Which basically results in Bard not gaining or losing anything overall.

[savageink]

Bards do benefit from their own songs. They just get different benefits from party members.

[Shurrikhan]

Brotherhood helps the monk too.

Not directly. It only helps it through the portion of the effects specifically meant to benefit from allies. The damage buff does not apply to the Monk him/herself.

battle voice needs to buff the bard too period , isnt gamebreaking at all and like the OP said , the bard sing the song to inspire every party memeber him/herself included :/

Not gamebreaking is hardly a reason for balance changes. Battle Voice has never affected the Bard. That could change and no one would care per se, but balance shifts on collections of minutia. Moreover, it would probably already be part of the Bard's personal DPS balance if SE felt Bard was better off for it. They haven't. So one ability becomes worthless in solo play (i.e. you already receive its throughput without having to use it). That doesn't make it any less useful elsewhere. If and when Bard comes to feel undertuned, this may well be a slight adjustment they go with, as most would prefer to see all their skills useful regardless of party participation or size. But it's no requirement. There's no paradox, no insanity, in simply leaving Battle Voice raid only. It's been that way since ARR's release, after all.

[Enyalios]

Battle voice absolutely did effect the bard. You wanted TP faster? BV paean....

This whole mindset that bard must do less damage because they bring utility is bull crap and needs to go away, We're a DPS much like every other class. Scraping the bottom of the barrel for DPS is becoming silly and needs to end. It's not a balancing act of "how much do I buff the rest of the raid vs my own DPS" this is why dragoon is in such a bad place. They give them some utility and crap all over their DPS. Plus the benefits of the majority of 4 man content is rather slim to nothing!

[Berethos]

Battle voice absolutely did effect the bard. You wanted TP faster? BV paean....

Battle Voice only ever boosted the songs for the other members of your party. A Paeon with BV for the Bard was the same as a Paeon without it for the Bard before Stormblood launched, and that hasn't changed.

It doesn't help that some of the ability descriptions aren't as consistent as they should be - some that are party members and not self specifically say "Party members/All Party members" while others that can be used on any party member including self also say "All Party members" or just "Party members or pet" or "Party members or self." You kind of have to test them out...which is incidentally how players back when the game launched discovered that BV didn't buff songs for the Bard, just other party members.

Also, the utility impacting DPS is because if you had DPS equal to even those without utility, why would anyone ever take someone who didn't bring the utility?

The answer? You wouldn't, you'd be crazy not to take the DPS that brought both high DPS and high utility over the one that just brought high DPS. It's long been a concept, and is a known concept applied to this particular job - that's what a Bard is in this game, part archer and part support, which is why it gets higher utility at the cost of personal DPS.

You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

[HyoMinPark]

Battle voice absolutely did effect the bard. You wanted TP faster? BV paean....

This whole mindset that bard must do less damage because they bring utility is bull crap and needs to go away, We're a DPS much like every other class. Scraping the bottom of the barrel for DPS is becoming silly and needs to end. It's not a balancing act of "how much do I buff the rest of the raid vs my own DPS" this is why dragoon is in such a bad place. They give them some utility and crap all over their DPS. Plus the benefits of the majority of 4 man content is rather slim to nothing!

Long version because I always have a lot to say (tl;dr version below spoiler tab):

Battle Voice never augmented songs for the bard that was singing them. The fact that Battle Voice continues to not affect the bard that used it isn't a new thing introduced with Stormblood.

And actually, bards did less damage than most other jobs (well, used to, that is; we fair pretty well now) because of their high mobility. That was their primary reason for doing less overall damage; second was because they were primarily a support-type role, i.e., not a job like BLM or MNK or SAM where there is mostly raw damage/big-dick numbers and minuscule party-wide support. In all actuality, a lot of people are calling for RDM to be nerfed because of it's high mobility, followed by it's ease of play and support capabilites; it's considered "too OP" as it is right now.

It was already established by SE that if bards were going to be fully mobile, they needed to sacrifice some of their personal DPS for the sake of balance. When Heavensward launched, bards lost their mobility, and, in turn, gained a permanent 30% damage increase to all their actions (the original Wanderer's Minuet), although the skill itself took a bit of tuning after it was introduced to not be so clunky. I think most bards were pleasantly surprised to see that, in Stormblood, we still retained quite a bit of power with the return of our full mobility, even though a few of our abilities were adjusted and nerfed, probably as a way to balance the job (Bloodletter was nerfed from 150 potency to 130; Raging Strikes, while given a shorter cooldown, was reduced from 20% damage increase to 10%), and then others we lost completely, (damage from Repelling Shot, Blunt Arrow, Hawk's Eye and our other offensive oGCDs, and forever RIP our Flaming Arrow fire circle...oh, and Wide Volley). Sitting here imagining Stormblood bard with all the skills and offensive buffs we had in Heavensward PLUS our new abilities...we would be so insanely OP everyone would be making "Pls nerf BRD" thread instead of "Pls nerf SAM" or "Pls nerf RDM."

Like another poster said, bards do get benefits from our songs; they just differ from the party's benefits. Like with Army's Paeon: for each Repertoire stack, we get a 4% haste buff, stackable up to 16%. No one else in the party gets that haste buff. Mage's Ballad has our River of Blood trait, and the new Wanderer's Minuet is basically what contains a lot of our burst for our opener (a 3-stack Pitch Perfect is 420 potency).

You entitled to voice your opinions. Regardless of what you think, however, there has to be a balance. If all jobs brought insane support capabilities and insane DPS, then there would be no balance at all with regards to party composition or even content. And you say we "scrape the bottom of the barrel" and that SE has "crapped all over our DPS," but bard is in a really good spot now in terms of DPS despite some of the things we lost from Heavensward bard. They were in a good spot at the end of Heavensward, too, with some of the highest parses in Savage content belonging to bards and also machinists. Try as you might, there will always be someone on the bottom, much like there will always be someone on top.

With regards to DRG, I don't play the job that often, but I know a few people who do, and I don't think they think DRG's DPS took a hit because of the added "support" they got (Dragon Sight, or Lord of the Dragon, or whatever it's called). Again, though, I can't really speak for DRGs, but there are a lot of jobs right now that need balancing and agjusting. SMN has some support-type ability (Devotion, I think it's called), but that's definitely not what has the job in such a weird spot right now. Same thing for poor MCH.

Believe it or not, serious progression groups pick jobs with the support utility that bard has because it helps them with their progression. Only a fool wouldn't take a job that has the support bard has into a serious savage raid environment, and really, that goes for if any job had the support bard has.

Bard is fine just as it is now; a lot of people think so. Even I think so, and I was one of the few bards who actually played all through Heavensward with the old Minuet, and didn't care too much about the cast times I had. And like Shurrikhan and I have both said, if SE were to decide that bards were to get the benefits of the 2% crit buff each song gives, and also receive the 15% Direct Hit increase Battle Voice gives, they would take away elsewhere because of balance. Like Berethos said: You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

tl;dr version:

Battle Voice never affected the bard using it.

Bard's DPS was always lower due to their free mobility, not just because they had so much party utility.

Bards are not "scrapping the bottom of the barrel" in terms of DPS. We are actually fairly very well off right now, despite being fully mobile again. Serious progression groups will always favor a job with good DPS and good support over a job that is just raw damage with nothing to benefit the group/progression, and even the HW speed-kill meta had 2 support-type DPS jobs in it (bard and machinist).

The issues with DRG and other jobs probably have very little to do with them being given a tiny bit of support, and more to do with poor job balancing and design choices on the developers' part.

There always has to be balancing when it comes to jobs in this game. Can't have your cake and eat it, too.

And, if the "benefits of the majority of 4-man content are rather slim to nothing," then why are you arguing so hard for a buff that bards are doing well without?

[Jeckyl_Tesla]

Battle voice absolutely did effect the bard. You wanted TP faster? BV paean....

This whole mindset that bard must do less damage because they bring utility is bull crap and needs to go away, We're a DPS much like every other class. Scraping the bottom of the barrel for DPS is becoming silly and needs to end. It's not a balancing act of "how much do I buff the rest of the raid vs my own DPS" this is why dragoon is in such a bad place. They give them some utility and crap all over their DPS. Plus the benefits of the majority of 4 man content is rather slim to nothing!

As a BRd main,

Brds are not bottom of the barrel DPS, we're fucking in a perfect spot atm. Perfectly balanced.
DRGs aren't in a shit spot because they have support skills, it's because they're under powered.