Silly tank melds

[Makeda]

This is the only trinity based MMO I have seen where tanks are expected to out DPS the DPS, and healers are expected to do any DPS at all...

The thing is though, that\\'s how the game is designed. In other mmos tanks typically can\\'t come anywhere close to touching even terrible dps and healers even less so.

But in this game the dynamic is different.

Edit: I removed the last paragraph that was here, it was rude. My point is though that ffxiv is not other mmos. The tank and healer role function differently here than what others are traditionally used to.

And yet it was in fact YOU that said:

This has to be the only game I've ever played where people not only knowingly make bad decisions, ... choosing only to heal ...

You will note that my reply was in response to your claim there.

Oh and, it will NOT take an incredible rework to make this MMO have a pure trinity. They could do it by simply nerfing tank and healer DPS.

Numbers like this are not a matter of design needs, but design preferences. They are very easily changed.

WoW has in fact had a period where tank's had higher DPS than DPS, and the top healer was a match to any mid-range DPS. For about half of the 'Cata' expansion, they had a stat they called Vengeance that got higher and higher the more aggro you had - and it then boosted your DPS. On any big pull, the tank with aggro alone could do the DPS of the entire rest of the part COMBINED... It kind of became a bit of an issue... because tank swaps got tricky when the other tank lacked all of that absurd threat lead, as soon as a taunt wore off, the first tank would get it back for some of the classes... and the top healer, the 'Discipline Priest' - primarily healed by casting an attack spell, which caused EVERYONE in the group to healed for the amount of DPS that the priest did... and it scaled absurdly well back then...

A few patches later and things were "WoW normal" with tanks at about 80% of DPS (where they are today), and healers either at 0 DPS, or for the Discipline Priest... maybe 50-60%... (the Disc priest has currently been nerfed into near unplayability, at least up until I left in patch 7.2...)

- So WoW went through a more radically swing up and down than this game has ever seen or is seeing now, and people managed to adjust to it. I am not saying the swing WoW did was a good thing, but that the game and it's community survived it.

These issues can be adjusted pretty easily...

A fight takes '100%' to defeat... all the devs need to do is divy up that 100 into different ratios between the roles.

Right now they seem to presume that the balance should be, in a Full Party: 10% for each tank, 10% for each healer, and then 15% for each DPS.
The community on the other hand seems to think it should be 15% for each tank, 15% for each healer, and 10% for each DPS... The amount of slack this community allows DPS to get away with is astounding given how tight the demands are that it puts on the tanks and healers... I could understand it if we were 'extreme mode' about everyone's roles, or if the community was 'lackadaisical' about everyone's roles... but the fact that there is no pressure put on DPS in this community to actually DPS is just... peculiar...

But they could easily make this 5% for each healer, 10% for each tank, and 17.5% for each DPS - and the only thing they would need to do for that is adjust how much damage your abilities do in your 'role stance' and then "weaken" key aspects of the 'out of role' stance.

For example, WoW used to cause tanks in DPS stance to take 10% more damage from all attacks and lose their crit immunity... This actually persisted for about 5-8 years of the game's lifespan and tank players 'learned' how to handle solo content despite it... (there were actually 3 stances for people on a tank 'spec'...)

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

The amount of slack this community allows DPS to get away with is astounding.

It is! I've even started making a game of how low I can let my dps get without anyone telling me anything~ So far I've gotten to spamming Cooldown with Bishop turret and not a comment given! Of course, this comes with the caveat that the healer is DPSing. If they aren't then I play properly.

[TheMax1087]

Right now they seem to presume that the balance should be, in a Full Party: 10% for each tank, 10% for each healer, and then 15% for each DPS.
The community on the other hand seems to think it should be 15% for each tank, 15% for each healer, and 10% for each DPS... The amount of slack this community allows DPS to get away with is astounding given how tight the demands are that it puts on the tanks and healers... I could understand it if we were 'extreme mode' about everyone's roles, or if the community was 'lackadaisical' about everyone's roles... but the fact that there is no pressure put on DPS in this community to actually DPS is just... peculiar...

You're making some pretty bad assumptions there. You don't see much talk about dps contribution from the community here because the main metric that there contribution is based on can't be discussed in game or on this forum. Go to any other place this game is discussed and you'll see just as much if not more talk about bad dps. As for the %s in that post, I don't know where you came up with them. But they're so laughably off as to make it seem like you're talking about a different game entirely

[Tufelhunden]

Stuff like this is why the game needs to show percentages on secondary stats.

I mean WoW has done it for years, I don't know why the devs feel the need to be so cryptic about how their stats are weighted.

We shouldn't have to have people auto-attacking a dummy for hours (with a parser which you can't do on PS4) or trawling through forums to find out exactly how much benefit they are getting.

I so agree with this. In most games you have an idea what each start does on a percentage basis so you don't need to go outside the game to figure out the best starts.

[DacienSanderon]

Silly tank melds are ones that aren't tenacity.

[MyaValentine]

TLDR: Coming from a paladin MT who's apparently doing literally everything wrong.... You're literally arguing over straws here. None of it matters.. Except (Maybe) in savage which not many do anyway.

as many great players has commented here, none of this really matters if you can't play your class to its max potential and for that you need to know how to play first, lot's of people complaining for this extra 5% or that extra 2% but can't even squish every last drop their class can actually offer. keep playing the way you know how and odnt let others tell you otherwise because is more valuable someone who knows how to properly play their class than some over melded wanna be failing to AOE mechanics.

to my personal opinion, tenacity was a skill directly made for tanks, whatever the team had in mind for this stat is what they intent tanks to have, you can either do some damage and have some extra defense or you can go all damage which is still a minor difference ( in other words CHOICE PPL) something we've been asking so enjoy YOUR CHOISE and let others enjoy it as well.

as for the meld I will use, RIGHT side STR and LEFT Side mix of tenacity enough to get 1.5k and crits and thats it. the rest is insignificant amount of dmg that can contribute.

[Syfurion]

It is! I've even started making a game of how low I can let my dps get without anyone telling me anything~ So far I've gotten to spamming Cooldown with Bishop turret and not a comment given! Of course, this comes with the caveat that the healer is DPSing. If they aren't then I play properly.

Yeeah, but you're doing it on a MCH. No one really expects you to outdps a drunk goldfish, much less have an actual impact on the run.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Would like to get a damage formula for calulations to see where tenacity fits into it. People saying its only an extra 2% for damage output and reduction however the impact could be far more noticeable depending on where that 2% modifier is inserted into the equation.

[YitharV2]

Would like to get a damage formula for calulations to see where tenacity fits into it. People saying its only an extra 2% for damage output and reduction however the impact could be far more noticeable depending on where that 2% modifier is inserted into the equation.

As far as I know the theorycrafters are currently working on a document.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...alues/dk1oq9v/

[xJimmehx]

I went full Tenacity on day one of early access for levelling and learning(survival and enmity are pretty important at first). I assumed it would be useful. I also didnt expect my dps to plummet or the weights to change again..

I'm just waiting for more information before I make changes. I barely play anyways..