Silly tank melds

[EusisLandale]

So not doing, what, 100 more DPS a second is going to wipe a raid? And that doesn't indicate that there is something else wrong with the raid?

You're giving the options over Tenacity too much credit. Left side has slots to hold 520 points. In otherwise identical gear, the difference between a full Direct Hit tank (157 points per 1% DPS) and a full Tenacity tank (180 points per 1% DPS) is .5% DPS. You'll see a gap of 10-15 DPS between the two at most.

[dragonseth07]

So not doing, what, 100 more DPS a second is going to wipe a raid? And that doesn't indicate that there is something else wrong with the raid?

That 100 DPS from bad melds probably isn't making the difference. But, neither does one vote in an election. See where I'm going with this?

One grain of sand is insignificant. Adding one more grain of sand is also insignificant. Add enough, and it becomes a mountain, but no one grain put it to that point. It's the sum total.

Optimization is about taking away grains of sand (points of DPS loss) to keep the mountain (failed DPS checks) from forming.

It seems simplistic to frame it all in DPS, but party DPS is the metric to measure it by. Not personal DPS, party DPS. Proper optimization leads to higher party DPS, whether it be from dodging AoE's, mitigating tankbusters, coordinating party buffs, what have you. It all leads to more party DPS.

Edit: There is also a valid discussion of what is "good enough" for PUG content. Personally, I wouldn't slack in any way in a PUG so I get upset when someone else does. But, I realize there are many who feel that they don't have to try hard in a PUG.

[KalinOrthos]

I'm not even sure why this is such a hotly contested issue. Do I personally wish that there was strength on my accessories, that my attacks hit harder? Of course I do. But if it means sacrificing my own tankiness, then that's not a trade-off I personally like.

If I were an absolute cutting edge raider, if I were in a highly competitive static, then yes, these melding issues would be something I would be involved with. But most players aren't. Hell, most players aren't in statics, and many who are will try to meld to their static's personal playstyle. And getting worked up about that fact is just a waste of time and sanity.

[Malzian]

I'm not even sure why this is such a hotly contested issue. Do I personally wish that there was strength on my accessories, that my attacks hit harder? Of course I do. But if it means sacrificing my own tankiness, then that's not a trade-off I personally like.

If I were an absolute cutting edge raider, if I were in a highly competitive static, then yes, these melding issues would be something I would be involved with. But most players aren't. Hell, most players aren't in statics, and many who are will try to meld to their static's personal playstyle. And getting worked up about that fact is just a waste of time and sanity.

Pretty much what I was getting at in my previous post.

[KalinOrthos]

Pretty much what I was getting at in my previous post.

So you did! Posting from my phone, so these forums have a nasty habit of not refreshing the most recent posts. Sorry!

[Malzian]

So you did! Posting from my phone, so these forums have a nasty habit of not refreshing the most recent posts. Sorry!

It's okay! I'm glad we're in agreement. ^.^

[KalinOrthos]

.

1) So how exactly does Direct Hit over Tenacity affect party DPS? It adds more to your personal DPS and...that's really it. Meanwhile Tenacity increases your mitigation while also increasing your personal DPS. I don't know the exact numbers, but on paper, as a tank why would you ever choose DH over Tenacity?

2) That is one hell of a dismissal, saying that people who don't meld materia the way you want, which melding materia itself is more than what most players do, are players that don't "try hard in a PUG". Your elitism and ego is really hurting your point.

[dragonseth07]

snip

From the testing so far, Tenacity doesn't offer a large enough defensive benefit to make it worth the loss compared to other substats. Just like tank stance is a bigger loss than the gain it gives healers. The math is always subject to changing with patches, but that's why testing is important.

I'm not dismissing bad melds. I'm generalizing. Optimizing everything is freaking hard. Nobody has perfect play, perfect gear, and everything else perfect. You can't. There's simply no way. When I talk about optimization, it's generally in regards to attitude and willingness to improve over time in areas where you know you are lacking.

Having bad/no melds is one thing. Hell, my current gear is unmelded as of this moment. Calling it good enough is another.

[KrenianKandos]

Here's my argument as someone that went Tenacity/Det:

1) The gear I'm wearing is 310; which will be just entry level stuff when they release the new tome gear. As such, I don't feel like investments of anything else is worth more than Vs.
2) There is no concrete proof or theorycraft out there that have been stating what the stat weighs are for 4.0. Trust me: i've been watching on a daily basis both here and Reddit.
3) Tenacity and Det allowed me to make myself a bit less squishy for my healers to deal with. And gave me a bit more ATK. And make better heals. To me, that's a net gain to help out those healers that are still new. (We're around 2 weeks since the release of the expansion. There are still new people.)
4) I focus on defensive stats over offensive stats. My job is to tank and yes, I will throw in as much dps and switch over to Sword Oath when I can and the input of damage is low, but I want to be able to take a hit. Tenacity and Determination allow me to do so without feeling like I'm going to make my healer cry uncle.

When the stat weighs come out at some point and when the tome gear is also released, I'm going to review my choice and go accordingly. At this point, it sounds like Direct Hit is the way to go because it essentially does the most DPS for the tank to increase threat and add more DPS to the fights in order to shorten them. But I'm more concerned about helping my healers not feel like they're gonna have heart attacks every time I get hit by a tankbuster or other reasons.

Every start of the expansion, I personally always focus more on the defensive stats. Come mid and late game, I go more offensive as I normally outgear the runs I do. To me, Tenacity and Det work great.

And that's why I do it.

[Eclipsed]

Why do people complain so much about what is supposedly "sub-optimal" when it makes little to no difference in normal, is not even really needed in hard/extreme, and only really comes into play in Savage (which most people will never do anyway)? Even if it were 1000 dps difference, it still wouldn't effect your daily roulette noticeably... The elitism in this community is just completely out of control...