The state of DPS and why I both love and hate RDM

[ADVSS]

You know, they whined about 2.x BLM not being complex enough for its dmg and just plain BOOOORING, but I absolutely loved it though it was way more fun before the infinite flare nerf. Now theyre whining its too complex, and doesnt has enough damage. Who are these people and why camt they make up their mind?

[Dualgunner]

Who are these people and why camt tjeu ,ale i[ tjeor ,omd?

Raubahn just assassinated ADVSS.

[HoLoFoNo]

.

And what it seems you aren't understanding is that I'm not discussing classes play styles right now, I'm discuss performance. At the end of the day even if these classes aren't perfect ATM, the expansion just released so there is very little hope for a massive overhaul. But not only do these classes play poorly, they also don't perform.

You keep using the argument that the other classes are too difficult to play, that isn't RDMs fault and RDM doing less damage won't fix that. While that might be true, it will also stop players from quitting their jobs to jump on the bandwagon to play the EZmode powerhouse that doesn't care about fight mechanics. At the end of the day, even if DRG and SMN are clunky, if they rewarded the effort appropriately there would be far less complaints about the class. 3.0 DRG wasn't the best to play, and yet complaints were fairly minimal because the class was good. It required skill to get the most out of the class.


Remember: everything is relative. Performance is relative, utility is relative. It is just human nature to be pissed off that they can get ice cream, but you can't. It doesn't necessarily mean that dragging others down is the best course of action no. But even then I provided a hypothetical yet you still decided to harp on the point about other classes sucking to play. As I said, people will find a way to optimize classes even if they require jumping over hurdles if they get rewarded for it, which I think everyone can agree on.

At least, we will see on Tuesday what the dev team think.

[ADVSS]

Raubahn just assassinated ADVSS.

LOL made me spit my drink out thank you! post got editted, kinda wished i left it alone now

sderiously, why does enochian even still exist? I thought they were getting rid of button bloat.

[Galvuu]

You know, they whined about 2.x BLM not being complex enough for its dmg and just plain BOOOORING, but I absolutely loved it though it was way more fun before the infinite flare nerf. Now theyre whining its too complex, and doesnt has enough damage. Who are these people and why camt they make up their mind?
(...)
sderiously, why does enochian even still exist? I thought they were getting rid of button bloat.

I don't think the majority of BLMs are complaining that it's too complex.
They're complaining the hardest rotation doesn't do more damage than the easier one (and it doesn't do enough damage overall).

Enochian exists because of Foul, and to add depth (you can't just mindlessly spam spells, you need to make meaningful decisions of AF/UI upkeep VS higher pps spells).
I actually quite love Enochian (I did like its previous iteration better, though).

[PrismaticDaybreak]

whatever

Then make it so everyone can get the ice cream, don't just take it away from other people or make it more expensive for the people that already have it. I've already said this exact thing. You don't seem understand that play style flows (or should flow) directly into performance, how a class plays directly influences its performance overall. Which is why I say and keep saying that nerfing RDM isn't going to make DRG, SMN, MCH etc. more fun to play or give proper returns it's just going to result in a giant circle of pissed off people.

[Crewman]

It's still a DPS loss though if you transpose. You'll have to stay in Umbral Ice longer to get enough mana and then cast F3 at practically full cast time.

You are right it is. It's a timing game for me really. As long as I have swiftcast ready to instantly regain my 3 shards with Fire 3 I will be okay, without that there is a small drop off. if you really screw that up it's even worse.

[Misutoraru]

Then make it so everyone can get the ice cream, don't just take it away from other people or make it more expensive for the people that already have it. I've already said this exact thing.

i do agree that some class/job being more complex is not other classes/jobs fault, nerfing other jobs/classes will not change a thing
but as a RDM my main caster, i feel RDM could bring down a bit in dmg output
just using the FFlog statistic the top 1%
i believe involving player skill in balance is a very poor choice, but as a reference point i have no choice but use the top 1 percentile in theory, they should be around similar if not equal skill level
https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/15...unt&dataset=99
i do feel RDM should be on around NIN output level, as they both provide more than just personal output but also great team support
BLM is not far behind RDM, but being a caster excel at both single target and AOE, but bring little support to the team they should be slightly higher than RDM and NIN but lower than SAM

in other word, i feel BLM output is about right level might be a very slight boost e.g. blizzard IV and Fire IV back to original potency
what BLM need probably is some change/buff to help ease with mechanics, I personally prefer the old Enochian way more than current one, but there are no point turning back, i believe slight buff on timer/ Mana regen with Umbral Ice would probably make a lot of different on BLM

[Galvuu]

snip

My goodness, I will tirelessly repeat this until the end of time if I must x)
Please. Do not. Use. The 99% percentile.
Please. These are padded runs where "which AST drew more balances at the right time" decides who gets to stay and is bumped down.
Further, there are very few parses on the 99% percentile, so the results have extremely limited statistical validity.

And how are you arguing that "involving player skill in balance is a bad idea" and then grab a bunch of parses which likely feature some of the absolute best players x)?
(And why would it be "slightly" higher than NIN/RDM? The reasons that justify SAM's high personal dps apply to BLM also...)

I feel like NIN always "gets away" in these discussions. This job has a 1.7% raid damage boost (technically more, due to multiplicative stacking of buffs and if TA is timed with openers and stuff), multiple aggro tools (that can further boost the damage of tanks) and the tasty slashing debuff to buff PLD+DRK comps. NIN should be the lowest of all dpsers except maybe BRD (which has slightly more utility), yet somehow it's fine if it's capable of dishing out more personal dps than half of the dps jobs.
SE please give SMN their version of TA. I want more SMNs in my parties. End this NIN monopoly.

[Dualgunner]

Noooononono, top 1 percentile is the most skewed results you're going to get. Use the 75th to 90th percentile at max, really. The results in this case are similar, but it's bad form to use what is well known as nothing but padded results to mark your data.

My goodness, I will tirelessly repeat this until the end of time if I must x)
Do not. Use. The 99% percentile.
Please. These are padded runs where "which AST drew more balances at the right time" decides who gets to stay and is bumped down.
Further, there are very few parses on the 99% percentile, so the results have extremely limited validity.

And how are you arguing that "involving player skill in balance is a bad idea" and then grab a bunch of parses which likely feature some of the absolute best players x)?

Was gonna reference Galvuu in the initial post, but decided against because I couldn't find her quote. Here's one that ninja'd me entirely