The state of DPS and why I both love and hate RDM

[PrismaticDaybreak]

snip

Nerfing RDMs damage surely is feasible, but it's the lazy mans way to "fix" things. It's like pulling weeds without getting the roots out, the problem is still underlying and you'll just have to pull the tops off again and again. I'll say it again because for some reason it isn't making it through, but nerfing RDMs output doesn't fix the other classes in any way. DRG and SMN will still have an overly long buildup and lesser utility, BLM will still not have an appropriate skill floor or ceiling. Ease of use should not equal less damage, complexity should increase the ceiling and to some extent the floor of that class not reduce the floor and ceiling of other classes because some people don't want to play Liszt's Campanella on their keyboards. It's a repetitive cycle that doesn't work, oh this class is doing too well in comparison let's nerf it, then that class doesn't get picked, oh no looks like the other classes are doing too well are in comparison let's just nerf them too.

If RDM and SAM have more refined playstyles you should be arguing for more refined playstyles to the other classes, not arguing "NERF THIS IT WORKS BETTER THAN ME WITHOUT GIVING THE PLAYER A HEADACHE"

[HoLoFoNo]

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And what it seems you aren't understanding is that I'm not discussing classes play styles right now, I'm discuss performance. At the end of the day even if these classes aren't perfect ATM, the expansion just released so there is very little hope for a massive overhaul. But not only do these classes play poorly, they also don't perform.

You keep using the argument that the other classes are too difficult to play, that isn't RDMs fault and RDM doing less damage won't fix that. While that might be true, it will also stop players from quitting their jobs to jump on the bandwagon to play the EZmode powerhouse that doesn't care about fight mechanics. At the end of the day, even if DRG and SMN are clunky, if they rewarded the effort appropriately there would be far less complaints about the class. 3.0 DRG wasn't the best to play, and yet complaints were fairly minimal because the class was good. It required skill to get the most out of the class.


Remember: everything is relative. Performance is relative, utility is relative. It is just human nature to be pissed off that they can get ice cream, but you can't. It doesn't necessarily mean that dragging others down is the best course of action no. But even then I provided a hypothetical yet you still decided to harp on the point about other classes sucking to play. As I said, people will find a way to optimize classes even if they require jumping over hurdles if they get rewarded for it, which I think everyone can agree on.

At least, we will see on Tuesday what the dev team think.

[Eclipsed]

It just feels this way because they did such a good job with RDM/SAM and well obviously reworked the rest of the classes after a week long bender... All they really did to other classes was make them worse, took away key skills, made other skills useless, and threw in arguably pointless job gauges and couple of skills that aren't really even necessary for the other jobs to do their role. RDM/SAM aren't OP or too easy/versatile, they just completely failed at redoing everything else.

[HappyHubris]

I feel that contribution should be equal irrespective of class difficulty. I gravitate towards tough MMO classes and overcoming the challenge is it's own reward.

That said, I'm pretty miserable in having chosen SMN/SCH for 4.0, as both are clunky and a bit dull. Also, SMN quality of life for solo content has been considerably reduced by having zero pet heals (your coconut doesn't even heal them!).

The focus should be making all classes have a similar damage/utility aggregate ceiling and then focus on improving the enjoyment of each.

[Draxxion]

Just want to add that last I checked, outside of pvp, we are all on the same side. If RDM is doing more damage and performing better that so long as you are not in the top 1% world first static and are still getting invited to your FC/Statics runs then does it really matter if RDM is doing better? I think those of us here in America and Europe take things way to far sometimes. Does not mean there should not be fixes for BLM or SMN, but advocating a nerf to your fellow caster is not only disrespect to those who play said Job, but a disrespect to the programmers and designers who came up with that Job. Advocate fixes for Jobs. Don't advocate nerfs for Jobs that others are finding a lot of fun. Nerfing another job does not fix the issues that your job is having.

[Ferrasper]

Just want to add that last I checked, outside of pvp, we are all on the same side. If RDM is doing more damage and performing better that so long as you are not in the top 1% world first static and are still getting invited to your FC/Statics runs then does it really matter if RDM is doing better? I think those of us here in America and Europe take things way to far sometimes. Does not mean there should not be fixes for BLM or SMN, but advocating a nerf to your fellow caster is not only disrespect to those who play said Job, but a disrespect to the programmers and designers who came up with that Job. Advocate fixes for Jobs. Don't advocate nerfs for Jobs that others are finding a lot of fun. Nerfing another job does not fix the issues that your job is having.

Most of us don't want RDM nerfed. We just want the others brought up to their respective positions.

[Draxxion]

Most of us don't want RDM nerfed. We just want the others brought up to their respective positions.

Which is all I was getting at with my post. I want to see BLM and SMN doing well as well. But, be careful when making comparisons as it can come off as advocating for nerfs.

[Psycofang]

Not sure what you're getting at here, Embolden increases physical damage dealt by party members that receive the buff.

Are you saying that you raid with 6 other players that benefit from an increase in physical damage? (2 tanks, 3 melee/mch/brd, and an auto-attacking healer?)

The RDM gets buffed 1

Both tanks 2

The other 3 dps 3

Thats 6/8

[Kabooa]

I'd argue Black Mage is as refined as it gets. There's a certain simplicity to being a cannon, and Black Mage is a smooth and natural learning experience.

"Fire means damage, ice means recovery." <= Early levels.

"Transposing is meant as an emergency...ooooh." <= When you get Fire3/Blizz3

"Thunder enables Thundercloud, the single highest potency ability in the game..." <= Until Iaijutsu 3. Jerks.

"Positioning is key." <= Level 50 dungeons and trials

Much like every job, the progression stair leading to what we have now is readily apparent, and Black Mage wasn't changed that much with Stormblood. Black Mage is as refined as it gets. The issue is that currently the top of that stepping stone sees only very minor rewards to the rung that came before. In this regard, the 'lazy man' approach of simply tweaking numbers is an appropriate response.

I'd prefer something more interesting, but more interesting is usually what occurs at expansions so...

[ADVSS]

You know, they whined about 2.x BLM not being complex enough for its dmg and just plain BOOOORING, but I absolutely loved it though it was way more fun before the infinite flare nerf. Now theyre whining its too complex, and doesnt has enough damage. Who are these people and why camt they make up their mind?