Why Summoner Needs Help

[dinnertime]

I don't think SMN needs an overhaul in the design but a few adjustments. I actually like how it plays but things like how Aethertrail and Aetherflow work now and how Demi-Bahamut works really needs to be fixed.

(I'd like to see a Demi version of whatever summon you have out after one DWT. Maybe next expansion?)

[Sunako]

So better compare it with RDM, as they have similar utility like both have rez and both have something to buff other players.

Well summoner damage buffs are pretty smalls. Devotion is overall dps loss if it used for healer that not even do the damage because you have to sacrifice your pet dps using devotion. Devotion delay your wind blade attack by 2 second that is like 14 dps loss from yourself. If you can use it for dps class that do steadily 4k dps that boost the person damage by 33.33 dps over 90 seconds. So average what you gain from devotion is around 20 overall dps. SMN have contagion as well, but majority of setups favor physical damage only. If double caster would be viable SMN would boost other caster around 100 dps, but because blm is so far behind from samurai it is not worth run with double caster. Using radiant shield boost physical damage, but you lose around same amount damage from contagion yourself than what radiant shield bring for the party.

[Pomo]

A solution I have is making Bahamut's entire potency based on our own rather than have any reduction period... but that doesn't fix our only getting 2,160 potency ever minute after the change. That's why I propose giving Akh Morn a full 1000 potency. This may sound extreme, but for an attack based off of a TANK BUSTER, it is more than fitting. Give it Flare's whole 15%, 30%, 45%, 60%, 70% drop-off if you feel it necessary, but we ought to be able to match or outdo Black Mage if we need a massive amount of time just to get to our highs, while Black Mage is constantly doing cocaine.

So, the buffs have been essentially double-edged at best, minimal at worst. However, now we get into the outright nerfs.

Just un-nerf Bane (I don't care if you bring it to Heavensward or A Realm Reborn, having the worst dropoff is simply not okay), and double the duration of Shadow Flare, and that SHOULD fix some things.

I'd rather they take the 70% and 80% drop offs and shove them where the sun don't shine. I barely accepted the 50% HW nerf and there's zero chance I'll accept this. It really looks like SE is trying to cap our aoe skills (ARR Bane capped at 2 or 3 enemies) again. I'm completely against this.

[RulerOfPotaoes]

One of the many changes i would like to see is: make the smn lose aether stacks on death like always BUT the ability or stacks to summon bahamut should Not be affected by death.

Lets Say you already have bahamut ready to summon but you're waiting on aether flow stacks or you go them and are waiting for the right timing to summon bahamut and you suddenly die, you lost your aether stacks but your ability to summon bahamut still remains. Yeah ofc as it should death will cause u to lose dps but not at a unbearably punishing way.

[Dyvid]

Well summoner damage buffs are pretty smalls. Devotion is overall dps loss if it used for healer that not even do the damage because you have to sacrifice your pet dps using devotion. Devotion delay your wind blade attack by 2 second that is like 14 dps loss from yourself. If you can use it for dps class that do steadily 4k dps that boost the person damage by 33.33 dps over 90 seconds. So average what you gain from devotion is around 20 overall dps. SMN have contagion as well, but majority of setups favor physical damage only. If double caster would be viable SMN would boost other caster around 100 dps, but because blm is so far behind from samurai it is not worth run with double caster. Using radiant shield boost physical damage, but you lose around same amount damage from contagion yourself than what radiant shield bring for the party.

Okay, honest question now. Have you tried using Ifrit and are you include the actual damage radiant shield does to your own dps? When I did V.1 I found RS damage comparable to Shadow Flare so it's not a huge boost but it's there along with the 2% physical damage debuff for 24s and the best chance off devotion hitting front line dps jobs; though it's really just hit and miss still.

[Sunako]

Okay, honest question now. Have you tried using Ifrit and are you include the actual damage radiant shield does to your own dps? When I did V.1 I found RS damage comparable to Shadow Flare so it's not a huge boost but it's there along with the 2% physical damage debuff for 24s and the best chance off devotion hitting front line dps jobs; though it's really just hit and miss still.

No i just calculated how much that vulnerability potentially bring you dps. And i calculated it as 20 seconds because 24 second is not gonna happen. Boss have to hit at same moment once radiant shield get applied and in the last moment before the buff fall off and if boss is doing something else than attacking buff may fall off in the middle of the duration so 20 seconds sounds way more realistic for me.

[Nirokun]

For the love of god stop asking for this! You shouldn't be asking for any form of spell that heals your pet, no real DPS player will ever waste GCDs to heal the pet that's absolutely unreasonable in any half serious content. If you want to ask for something...ask for the pet to be even more resilient to AOEs or completely immune.
As for solo content... chocobo or swap to healer and problem solved... (which isn't all that hard considering you have SCH for free when leveling SMN...talk about complaining for the sake of complaining).

Whoa whoa whoa, chill out. Sustain was a functional aspect of Arcanist from the beginning, and if you actually played the job and pushed what it could do, Sustain was not a hindrance. Sustain had such a short cast time it might as well have been a Ruin2 cast because it shot off so early in the GCD you had plenty of time to move + use some other oGCD that SMN has in spades.

You honestly sound like a SMN that never used Titan-egi to solo hunts, maps, or even tank PotD or dungeons when there was no proper tank. That stuff was incredibly fun and gave real purpose to Titan-egi. If your idea of fixing SMN soloing is to change jobs, you're way off base. Might as well strip all healers of DMG spells and heals from Tanks/DPS.

Take many seats.

[TripPsyc]

Why do i get this strange feeling that SMN's are about to be treated like they were during a certain extended time back in the coil days.....

[Ashbury]

The most immediate change they can make to SMN is make so aetherflow stacks cannot be 'wasted'. If you Bane a mob but it does not reach the 2nd target because the OT didn't move him close enough should reward a aethertrail regardless. Same with using Fester on a mob that just went invincible on the last second.

Losing the effect of the spell should be punishment enough, having your whole rotation pushed back 2 minutes on top of that is too much.

If you are about to type any reply in the vein of 'git gud' please tell me how a RDM or BLM get punished with the same severity for misusing a spell.

[TripPsyc]

Why shouldn't summoners be compared to blms over rdms? While you can argue its having revive as utility it still nets smn a dps loss when used anyway plus pet devotion/radiant shield have not even been adding 1% at this stage. As a duty based system raid groups will always be looking at the 3 casters as single choice in most circumstances. Red mage kinda eclipsing both currently, while summoners, proper & mistake free rotation, plateaus still below the others at twice the effort.