Why Summoner Needs Help

[ray1108]

As a non-SMN player I also want to say something about this topic.

As many poeple said you should not compare SMN with BLM because SMN has much more utility. So better compare it with RDM, as they have similar utility like both have rez and both have something to buff other players. DPS wise maybe SMN is a bit behind the other two casters but it depends very much on the fight. Assume you have a fight where you have to move very much like Titan, then BLM will ever be the last because RDM have dualcast (even if they have to use it right) and SMN have dots(best in that moment) and also some instant casts. And in fight with lots of mobs (e.g. A2) i think RDM will be the last and SMN and BLM will be at the same spot.
Maybe I'm completely wrong with all I said but this is what i can see as outsider.

Another topic is the design. I absolutely agree with everyone who is saying that some jobs need a change in design.

[Sunako]

So better compare it with RDM, as they have similar utility like both have rez and both have something to buff other players.

Well summoner damage buffs are pretty smalls. Devotion is overall dps loss if it used for healer that not even do the damage because you have to sacrifice your pet dps using devotion. Devotion delay your wind blade attack by 2 second that is like 14 dps loss from yourself. If you can use it for dps class that do steadily 4k dps that boost the person damage by 33.33 dps over 90 seconds. So average what you gain from devotion is around 20 overall dps. SMN have contagion as well, but majority of setups favor physical damage only. If double caster would be viable SMN would boost other caster around 100 dps, but because blm is so far behind from samurai it is not worth run with double caster. Using radiant shield boost physical damage, but you lose around same amount damage from contagion yourself than what radiant shield bring for the party.

[Dyvid]

Well summoner damage buffs are pretty smalls. Devotion is overall dps loss if it used for healer that not even do the damage because you have to sacrifice your pet dps using devotion. Devotion delay your wind blade attack by 2 second that is like 14 dps loss from yourself. If you can use it for dps class that do steadily 4k dps that boost the person damage by 33.33 dps over 90 seconds. So average what you gain from devotion is around 20 overall dps. SMN have contagion as well, but majority of setups favor physical damage only. If double caster would be viable SMN would boost other caster around 100 dps, but because blm is so far behind from samurai it is not worth run with double caster. Using radiant shield boost physical damage, but you lose around same amount damage from contagion yourself than what radiant shield bring for the party.

Okay, honest question now. Have you tried using Ifrit and are you include the actual damage radiant shield does to your own dps? When I did V.1 I found RS damage comparable to Shadow Flare so it's not a huge boost but it's there along with the 2% physical damage debuff for 24s and the best chance off devotion hitting front line dps jobs; though it's really just hit and miss still.

[Sunako]

Okay, honest question now. Have you tried using Ifrit and are you include the actual damage radiant shield does to your own dps? When I did V.1 I found RS damage comparable to Shadow Flare so it's not a huge boost but it's there along with the 2% physical damage debuff for 24s and the best chance off devotion hitting front line dps jobs; though it's really just hit and miss still.

No i just calculated how much that vulnerability potentially bring you dps. And i calculated it as 20 seconds because 24 second is not gonna happen. Boss have to hit at same moment once radiant shield get applied and in the last moment before the buff fall off and if boss is doing something else than attacking buff may fall off in the middle of the duration so 20 seconds sounds way more realistic for me.

[Angry_Evil]

Well summoner damage buffs are pretty smalls. Devotion is overall dps loss if it used for healer that not even do the damage because you have to sacrifice your pet dps using devotion. Devotion delay your wind blade attack by 2 second that is like 14 dps loss from yourself. If you can use it for dps class that do steadily 4k dps that boost the person damage by 33.33 dps over 90 seconds. So average what you gain from devotion is around 20 overall dps. SMN have contagion as well, but majority of setups favor physical damage only. If double caster would be viable SMN would boost other caster around 100 dps, but because blm is so far behind from samurai it is not worth run with double caster. Using radiant shield boost physical damage, but you lose around same amount damage from contagion yourself than what radiant shield bring for the party.

Okay, I don't know if your math is sound (and actually don't care) but after I read this I've got this THOUGHT that actually summoner should do more damage than not only BLM but also SAM because of a single and simple fact that our utilities and skills are STUPID. Like just think about it - we have 2 utility from which devotion is just dumb and weak, and contagion is pretty pointless cause we don't have relevant mage party composition(4 SMN meta here I come). Then we need to pay attention to ridiculous amounts of CDs(aetherflow, pet skills, contagion\RS, enkindle(which is not even consistent cd time), rouse, SF, Addle(!ADDLE lol), 3D etc.) But not only that we also must line them up properly and use them perfectly in time when half of them can't even be used in time cause of stupid pet's ai. And somewhere between all this we need to properly do fight mechanics. Just look at this. And worse of all - even if I DO line up everything and execute everything properly I will still do subpar DPS. This is ridiculous. Job design is ridiculous. Square should fire everybody who designed or came up with this travesty. Seriously.

[dinnertime]

I don't think SMN needs an overhaul in the design but a few adjustments. I actually like how it plays but things like how Aethertrail and Aetherflow work now and how Demi-Bahamut works really needs to be fixed.

(I'd like to see a Demi version of whatever summon you have out after one DWT. Maybe next expansion?)

[Pomo]

A solution I have is making Bahamut's entire potency based on our own rather than have any reduction period... but that doesn't fix our only getting 2,160 potency ever minute after the change. That's why I propose giving Akh Morn a full 1000 potency. This may sound extreme, but for an attack based off of a TANK BUSTER, it is more than fitting. Give it Flare's whole 15%, 30%, 45%, 60%, 70% drop-off if you feel it necessary, but we ought to be able to match or outdo Black Mage if we need a massive amount of time just to get to our highs, while Black Mage is constantly doing cocaine.

So, the buffs have been essentially double-edged at best, minimal at worst. However, now we get into the outright nerfs.

Just un-nerf Bane (I don't care if you bring it to Heavensward or A Realm Reborn, having the worst dropoff is simply not okay), and double the duration of Shadow Flare, and that SHOULD fix some things.

I'd rather they take the 70% and 80% drop offs and shove them where the sun don't shine. I barely accepted the 50% HW nerf and there's zero chance I'll accept this. It really looks like SE is trying to cap our aoe skills (ARR Bane capped at 2 or 3 enemies) again. I'm completely against this.

[RulerOfPotaoes]

One of the many changes i would like to see is: make the smn lose aether stacks on death like always BUT the ability or stacks to summon bahamut should Not be affected by death.

Lets Say you already have bahamut ready to summon but you're waiting on aether flow stacks or you go them and are waiting for the right timing to summon bahamut and you suddenly die, you lost your aether stacks but your ability to summon bahamut still remains. Yeah ofc as it should death will cause u to lose dps but not at a unbearably punishing way.

[TripPsyc]

Why do i get this strange feeling that SMN's are about to be treated like they were during a certain extended time back in the coil days.....

[Ashbury]

The most immediate change they can make to SMN is make so aetherflow stacks cannot be 'wasted'. If you Bane a mob but it does not reach the 2nd target because the OT didn't move him close enough should reward a aethertrail regardless. Same with using Fester on a mob that just went invincible on the last second.

Losing the effect of the spell should be punishment enough, having your whole rotation pushed back 2 minutes on top of that is too much.

If you are about to type any reply in the vein of 'git gud' please tell me how a RDM or BLM get punished with the same severity for misusing a spell.