Why Summoner Needs Help

[Gallus]

This is pure nonsense. Are you one of this summoners who almost never use ruin 3 outside of dwt?
Punishment everybody is talking about on smn goes from wasting your atherflow stacks - huge punish, losing your bahamut buildup and stacks on death = even more punish, mana problems when after death u need to resummon garuda etc, and if u died with everything on CD- your dps is done for. Reworking of dwt won't help with any punishment mechanics SMN has now....

Wasting an aetherflow stack shouldn't be anyone's concern, yes, it punishes you to insane levels, but come on...festering a boss without dots or casting bane on mobs that are far from each other? Talk about failing...
Now, I don't mind even this being changed, make it so that fester does base damage and does increased damage for each dot you have. Bane...just give it something like 20 potency in AOE so that the spell never fails.
You do that and SMN is still hard as f*** to do good DPS with.
On my other reply I was addressing the real stuff that would make SMN less punishing. Not these little irrelevant things like "no longer sustain!" some people like to go over and over...

[Angry_Evil]

I'm not sure from where you gather I don't cast Ruin III outside of DWT. The 6 next Ruin III costing no mana instead of DWT being a 15 second stance is because the latter makes SMN more vulnerable to random mechanics, disables, phases where movement is required and random screw ups in general.

Just a thought. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The 6 next Ruin III costing no mana instead of DWT being a 15 second stance is because the latter makes SMN more vulnerable to random mechanics, disables, phases where movement is required and random screw ups in general.

Sorry but this just doesn't make any sense to me. Sure DWT makes u stay in place and cast ruin3 without moving. But changing r3 to r2 once in dwt for movement etc. is not the end of the world. And certainly not something that makes other summoners uderperform in 4.0 or cry about punishment on forums. You lose your stack before dwt - and your build up and dps screwed for 60+ seconds. Still punishing af

Bahamut - Just make it AA like the pet independently.

I wonder about that tho... I don't dislike idea behind bahamut, how he does something only when we do it. But implementation is problematic. So it's a dilemma do we really need to dumb down bahamut? SO he would do 12 wirmwaves automatically - this certainly will raise summoners significantly, but leave job even more brain dead than it is now. Or should we just say "git gud" to summoners and make them learn how to properly manage bahamut?(then tho smn needs boost anyway cause your efforts are not properly rewarded in this case)

Saving your whole arsenal for this thing (which is what you are forced to do now) turns SMN into a "Gonna summon Baha now hopefully nothing screws me over for the next 20 seconds or I'm gonna meet the very bottom of the parser at the speed of the light.

hmm I don't know how you're playing summoner but it certainly not that punishing for me. Screwing something when u summon bahamut making him cast less wyrmwaves still means you used 3 festers and 2 akh morns giving you decent dps boost. I rarely find myself in the very bottom of the parses if I don't die anyway. Not much people know how to properly play their classes in this game, even if it's "easy" class like RDM...

[Troile]

I have to say that while I agree with some things said here, I completely disagree with making Bahamut a turret. I think the devs allowed us to control him in an interesting way which doesn't really take "extra" effort. I find it good that we have direct control over his dps.

I do agree that he shouldn't just follow us around and we should be able to place him though. Also...I agree with not locking out Aetherflow during our different states.

[Len]

Everything about the state of Summoner in Stormblood just reeks of placeholder until the eventual 5.0 revamp and separation from Scholar.

God knows what it'll become then. Wouldn't surprise me if it ends up worse.

Playing Red Mage has really made me bitter about the state of the other casters.

[AscendantManes]

The punishment would be a lot less severe if

a) Fester and Bane could only be used on targets with Bio and Miasma, and
b) If we didn't lose all the Bahamut stacks on death.

Being able to target Devotion would be very nice too. We have a series of role skills that are used by targeting other party members, so why can't Devotion do the same? If it's to intruduce an element of randomness to the all-purpose buff, then the right macros can nullify it almost entirely... so why?

[Sylvain]

Am I the only one who would like to see a reduction on Etherflow CD?
When I play summoner, it always seem like there's this 15-20sec where I'M waiting for Etherflow to come back which makes me do subpar everything.

While DPS if played perfectly is fine, a big issue is that the job is extremely punished upon death (unlike RDM for instance), to fix summoner and make it less punished when it dies, the attunement could be kept and Etherflow CD could be reset upon death.
This way, let say you die after your first BHT and repop of EF, you're not totally screwed. Upon being rezzed you can go on with your rotation.

[Sunako]

Even on dummy top summoner does more dps that blm lol(or at least comparable) Problem with this is - the moment mechanics go into play - BLMs are losing a lot of their dps cause they need to move. So in actual combat good SMN should show similar numbers to good BLM. Which is actually a problem in itself and shows how broken BLMs are too. Obviously average RDM can out dps both good blms and smns.

If you are comparing sss dummy parse, I can say that is cheesed every possible way. Try compare 10min smn and 10min blm dummy parse and you can see the difference.

[Karshan]

I think you've said it all : SMN can reach DPS amounts equivalent to other casters but it requires way too much effort compared to other classes.
As someone said only 4 got above 4000 on EXs parse while 50+ RDM and BLM were able to.

I was not top, but okay in HS, and I barely manage to defeat Exs SSS if I do it my way. I have seen Snow's guide, I know it can get a lot better. But managing to pull it off in actual fight would require hard training.
If I sum up, they're asking main summoners with 2000 hrs+ of game to train hard as if they were newbies whilst their idea was to close the gap between lowest and top DPS ? But how would a beginner with no idea of CD, oGCD and what not could ever come close to those 4000 DPS ?

This job became very punitive. I also think it's not about the potencies (it would make great SMNs go through the roof) but how the rotation flows that should change a bit.(and don't even get me started on death, loss of pet is double punishment).

[Galvuu]

snip

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but be careful that the BLM parses are super inflated with Balances (much more than SMN).
This might be with the fact BLM is more of a raw-dps job and SMN is now more supportive, but if you look at non-Balance numbers, BLM and SMN are very similar for the top 25 in both Susie and Lak EX.

This changes absolutely nothing about your points, more a "be careful with padded parses" thing. That and my mild disappointment at the amount of padding I see in my own job...

[Johaandr]

i hate devotion. Whenever i get blm as co dpser and i tap on blm to give him devotion the prt chooses to ignore me and give it to the healer...
I literary have to target blm for 2-4 sec to give him devotion. Devotion sucks and its clunky.