Thread: The biggest issue with 4.0 PVP

I've seen many players single 4.0 PVP's skill balances and oversimplification as a concern, though there have been many who have praised the very same things. While I agree that there's not much flavour left after the simplification of abilities, the real problem that it boils down to is that there is NO ENDGAME FOR PVP

In my opinion, the changes that outright slaughters the future for this niche are:

The removal of all chat features in The Feast (4v4 and 8v8)
The inability to queue with more than 1 person in The Feast (8v8)
The inability to queue with anyone in The Feast (4v4)

Aside from the blandness of skill and ability design I will not point out, this could still be remedied by interesting player-team coordination and strategies. Unfortunately, the changes above mean that:

• You cannot create interesting strategies with your team.
• You cannot PVP with friends.
• You cannot 'get better' at PVP (because the skill cap due to ability simplification is so low, the only way to get better would be to have better team coordination which is no longer possible)
• There is no reason for any DPS to queue for (4v4) because of the queue time.

Basically the only thing you can DO in the feast now is to throw bodies mindlessly at the enemy because you simply cannot communicate to your team if you want to do anything differently.

Even if you had a team you and were willing to cooperate (eg. discord) you can't even queue for them. Frontlines is the reason for playing this game mode, and any PVP veteran can tell you that the only strategy that actually works for that game mode is:

• Don't AFK
• Stick with the team
• COMMON SENSE

Somebody, bonus if it's the FFXIV team, needs to tell me what the appeal is of committing to a game mode with

• no skill progression, as the difference between a good and bad player at this mode are near negligable.
• no real reason to try and win
• no notable rewards that assist with PVP nor new glamors that are worth farming
• no strategy save to throw bodies at the other team
• no friends or teams
• no uniqueness between classes
• no high-level plays

and a 45m queue time only to queue up with a bunch of mute body bags that may or might not know what they're doing without the hope of improvement.

If you use edit, you can circumvent the initial post limitations.

You cannot 'get better' at PVP (because the skill cap due to ability simplification is so low, the only way to get better would be to have better team coordination which is no longer possible)

Debatable. The curve isn't what it used to be, but you'd be surprised how many people still have no situational awareness, know when to commit and when to just harass and fall back. All the little niche tricks with many pve abilities are no longer a thing, but other than the mechanics of PvP have remained predominantly the same.

There is no reason for any DPS to queue for (4v4) because of the queue time.

Nothing is stopping them from multiclassing and learning the healer or tank jobs. Healing is somewhat difficult in ffxiv because of the way the server ticks work, a fair amount of situational awareness and foresight is required. With that said, more healers will probably be queueing in S5 because there's less to learn, which is the goal of SE. Only the range DPS queue was truly awful on S4 on Chaos anyway.

no skill progression, as the difference between a good and bad player at this mode are near negligable.

Some of the 0/6/0 melees I've had in my games this week might leave me to disagree. The gap isn't as big as it was, but it's still pretty obvious.

Everything else is more or less correct.

a lack of game modes also kind of kills it.

i want to see diversity, all of the frontlines are basically the same in essence, get to location, defend/kill NPC object. fight players who approach. /done. Its bland and boring and the game modes are way too similiar. even the feast is just a common deathmatch. they need to bring in variety. frontlines has had enough, add capture the flag or base defense (not the half assed zone defense in glory where you read the tomeliths) but genuine bases on either side and you must assault and do some kind of objective.


also, adding only 2 teams allowed in a frontlines, instead of 3. 36vs 36 please.


my main issue with pvp isnt what you describe, tho they are valid. its just that its way too generic and gets boring fast

You can bypass the characters limit by editing your original post.

Anyway, what SE never understood is that (at least for NA/EU servers) the ratio of good and bad players will most likely never change no matter how much you dumb down pvp. What makes a difference is a player's motivation to perform well (and how badly the netcode affects you...). It's relatively easy now to figure out how to deal good damage, or how to press 2 healing spells, and still you see people underperforming. At least before this new PVP people sorta learned their jobs through PVE first and added PVP skills and mechanics to it. And PVP focused players would just learn how to be efficient in PVP even without touching PVE, because they were motivated and found it fun/interesting.
Now macthes in 4 vs 4 feel just too long because it's so boring and the fact that the better team ending up with too many medals will most likely get decimated at some points because of it.

Originally Posted by Tsuole

The removal of all chat features in The Feast

People keep complaining about that, I never felt like it was a big issue...Just mark what you want your teamates to attack and add a "Attacking that target" order to it. But for the love of god just allow one Hello! and Good job! per match.

I would agree with most of what you said though, and trust that (speaking for the Primal data center), a lot of the past seasons top players share the feeling that this new PVP is dumb.
Sadly the final say mostly goes to the Japanese players, and I don't know if the Japanese community is as disappointed with the new PVP as many of us are.

It's an issue Akimitsu (not being able to talk) because maybe I want us to hit the BRD until the SCH burns his lustrates, then hard swap onto him, or call cc for tank whilst bursting. Instead all I can do is "Attacking ranged!" "Attacking healer!".

I recall several instances last season of people misinterpreting my "attacking x" macros for "use absolutely everything". Having a ranked mode with virtually no communication to me is nonsense, but people somehow make it work.