Petition to ban Moogle exploiters.

[Tadacho]

You could fix it by having all the dead mobs reraise if they all lose claim. You could just end the instance if they reset back into place.. There's a lot of things that can be done. Anyways I agree. Ban the exploiters or at the very least strip them of their drops and achievements for the fight. We beat it legit and they should have to as well. Even if they don't fix this problem then when the next content comes out and doesn't have such an easy exploit their badness will shine bright when they can't beat the content and we stroll right on by them singing songs of how bad they truly are.

People need to get over saying "we beat it legit" and thinking it makes them high and mighty. Seen as the the current game's hate/aggro/battle system is all working as intended, it is not an exploit. There are many other battles in plenty of MMO's were wiping and raising is a viable and helpful STRATEGY, not EXPLOIT. All the people complaining about it being "not legit" are just jealous they were beat to the win by a group that used this strategy first. If that first group didn't win, and instead it was Order of the Blue Gartr who ended up winning by discovering this method, their egos would never, ever allow them to go "oh we won, yeah, but we cheated." Nope, instead, this would become the de facto strategy. End of the day, a win is a win.

[TheFatHousecat]

People need to get over saying "we beat it legit" and thinking it makes them high and mighty. Seen as the the current game's hate/aggro/battle system is all working as intended, it is not an exploit. There are many other battles in plenty of MMO's were wiping and raising is a viable and helpful STRATEGY, not EXPLOIT. All the people complaining about it being "not legit" are just jealous they were beat to the win by a group that used this strategy first. If that first group didn't win, and instead it was Order of the Blue Garter who ended up winning by discovering this method, their egos would never, ever allow them to go "oh we won, yeah, but we cheated." Nope, instead, this would become the de facto strategy. End of the day, a win is a win.

Actually, hours before the world first kill happened, people posted on our thread instructing us on the exploit strat, and we immediately rejected it. If you go back to the thread, it's on like, page 3 or something.

As has been said so many many times before, I could care less that we weren't world first, grats to those guys. What I do care about is the wipe/raise exploit, and the blatant disregard for basic game mechanics/rules that the people using it exhibit :/

[DevilsAdvocate]

Actually, hours before the world first kill happened, people posted on our thread instructing us on the exploit strat, and we immediately rejected it. If you go back to the thread, it's on like, page 3 or something.

As has been said so many many times before, I could care less that we weren't world first, grats to those guys. What I do care about is the wipe/raise exploit, and the blatant disregard for basic game mechanics/rules that the people using it exhibit :/

What she said ^

We rejected that "strat" from the second we read it. As far as egos go I have yet to toot my own horn about this other than to label it as a "Legit kill". If you want me to come right out and say this then I will also add that I DO in fact think we are better than those people who have to use the death and re-raise trick. I think everyone who can beat it without doing that is in fact better than those who can't. If that makes me sound egotistical then so what? It's true fact. If it were an open world NM we'd claim it from you when you let it de-agro and murder it in front of your faces to show you don't need to pull shit like that to win a fight. Now man up and get better so you can do it the proper way. Case closed.

[Tadacho]

Now man up and get better so you can do it the proper way. Case closed.

Doesn't really bother me, I've attempted moogle for first time last night and my parties used both methods and we lost all fights haha, but I know we'll beat in time, and I'll probably end up beating it using both methods at some point ^^ I'm just really against the idea of people suddenly turning around calling this an exploit when wiping is a method that has been used as a strategy for a long time in a lot of different ways.

[Xoo]

What she said ^

We rejected that "strat" from the second we read it. As far as egos go I have yet to toot my own horn about this other than to label it as a "Legit kill". If you want me to come right out and say this then I will also add that I DO in fact think we are better than those people who have to use the death and re-raise trick. I think everyone who can beat it without doing that is in fact better than those who can't. If that makes me sound egotistical then so what? It's true fact. If it were an open world NM we'd claim it from you when you let it de-agro and murder it in front of your faces to show you don't need to pull shit like that to win a fight. Now man up and get better so you can do it the proper way. Case closed.

Using this term reminds me of figures such as John Wayne, not King Moggle Mog XII. Please, this is just a damn game. Get over it and get over yourselves.

[Tadacho]

Well if that's the case, I take it back, but even so, why would you immediately reject it. I can think of dozens of fights across several MMOs in which a viable strategy was...

- Boss with adds: pull off adds one by one. Pull adds far enough away from original spawn point so that, once adds are killed you can die, reraise, refuel and just go after the boss. Recent example I can think of was a low-man Dodore fight!

- FFXI had several boss fights were a strategy often used was to wipe at a certain point and then have everyone reraise and recover! I've never fought, but I'm pretty sure this is even a strategy used against Pandemonium Warden in FFXI. I used to do this myself when I would solo Brothers ENM - kill first minotaur, allow second to kill me so I can reraise and recover MP to then kill it. There are other examples that spring to mind from FFXI - Ark Angels, Alexander fight, and a fight on an airhsip (I don't remember details of boss).

- Common strategy even used on regular open-world mobs, particularly when soloing something that's proving difficult. Wittling it down as much as you can before running away until the mob loses aggro (or in this game "returns to territory"), quickly curing yourself up, and then going back after said mob whilst it's HP is still low and finishing it off. Whilst it's not exactly dying/raising, it is essentially the same thing (losing hate).

- What about a party that wipes in a dungeon? Should they consider it a loss, or should they raise up and recover and continue, making sure not to get any aggro from nearby mobs during the raising phase? This is a common strategy in dungeons in WoW.

You say it's a disregard for game mechanics, but I disgaree. People have recognised, "hey, moogles aggro to movement, so we can probably recover if we don't move."

Sure, maybe it was discovered as a fluke at first, but who cares? This is a strategy that has been used in MMOs for years and years in several different types of scenario, although the concept is the same - "we can recover, so long as we don't aggro."

Anyway, the whole debate is pretty moot... Regardless of this strategy, most people who want will have moogle weapons in a couple of months anyway. At least in this scenario people would have obtained those weapons by using two different strategies, rather than everyone just copying each other with Ifrit.

[evilmica]

but the drama needs to continue! Since nothing else is happening to the game.

So what if bg rejected the strategy it doesn't mean it's not legit and everybody else who uses it should get banned. Like everybody else in the forum has posted a kill is a kill. Why do other ppl (not talking about you toda) have to be so high and mighty about something that's not even endgame. You guys keep talking what if this is a roaming nm this and that but IT'S NOT A ROAMING NM. If this was a roaming nm a less skilled group will most likely find a differnt strat that would yield the same results as your elite version strategy. Honestly for every elite strats out there somebody is going to make a noob friendly strats of their own. And this just happens to be this fights noob strats.

For example. If this was a roaming nm the noob strat would be TO BRING MORE PPL. I remembered the best elitist strats in 11 was low man everything because only the elites can do it.

Honestly this game is at it's infancy, elitism is just gonna kill it before it blooms into am awesome game. Because honestly elitism will just bring about the next coming of av and pw. Yes you guys enjoyed it but only less than 5% of the population really cared to bother.

Don't get me wrong because of your awesome elite ways noob strats was also formed so all i'm saying is stop the elitevsnoob already we can all coexist together ^.~

[solracht]

What I do care about is the wipe/raise exploit, and the blatant disregard for basic game mechanics/rules that the people using it exhibit :/

I imagine you guys also get your Moogle key items as a group, without disbanding, splitting, or having 2-3 people do it for the rest of the party. You know, the proper and intended way.

I'm asking because if you have chosen to only follow rules that you have arbitrarily deemed as important (while you're ignoring a lot of other rules and intended ways to do things) then this complaining doesn't mean much.