Shirk is amazing. (Ethics)

[Dement]

You jump potion bro? Cause obviously clearing content was impossible without shirk before right?

Doubling down on a poor opinion with insults. Bravo.

Of course swaps and clearing was possible before Shirk but that doesn't negate its usefulness. While I admit that it's rare, I've seen plenty of botched tank swaps that can occur for a large variety of reasons. If you haven't been a part of a botched tank swap then you probably haven't tanked enough to claim that shirk is useless. Shirk makes swaps much smoother no matter how you dice it and has the additional benefit of adding huge amounts to enmity as the tanks swap and shirk one another be that in an organic fashion or if they force it to build a massive enmity lead.

I disagree that shirk should be a part of the DPS role kit as the ability to troll the party and specifically troll the tanks doesn't need to be given to 4 different players in each 8 man content, since that's the gripe right? The ability to troll players? All a salty DPS would have to do is wait for a swap and then do a massive dump of enmity back onto the original MT. People were rightfully concerned when NIN was given the ability, let alone giving it to every DPS in the game.

[Axxion]

Yes, it was possible to clear content before Shirk.

However, if you take a look at all 3 tanks' aggro combos, you'll see that they're all a DPS loss (Butcher's Block is a potency gain vs SP, but you lose 10 gauge which makes it a loss). So how do we avoid doing those aggro combos as much as possible? By getting as much aggro as we can from elsewhere. In 3.X (and 4.X) this was from NIN and allowed for the most efficient speedkills. Now we have Shirk, which with a proper swap will gain you a ton of free aggro.

Basically, taking Shirk and using it properly is a pretty big DPS gain and when the goal is to kill the boss that tends to be a pretty important thing. Plus there really isn't anything to take in place of it (Rampart/Provoke/Reprisal/Conva/Shirk should be your go-to for 8man stuff, swapping Shirk for Awareness in dungeons).


OT vokes -> MT Shirks OT -> MT vokes -> OT shirks MT. That's for the Shirklejerk, but that's how it works anyway (OT vokes -> MT shirks).

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4282644 <- Shirk macro

Thanks very much

[Claire_Pendragon]

It's kinda hard to say when it's okay to do tbh, if at all... Simply because the moment of sweet vengeance isnt just wasting that one person's time, but your entire partys. So it's like... Yeah a great tool for that but we probably shouldn't.

Honestly if I ever wanted to waste a specific person's time for being a jerk or something I've always just kicked them. It almost always will pass(especially if it's a DPS) and... That specific person has to queue again
Was it a DPS? How long did they wait in queue only to start harassing people while in dungeon? Well, now they can wait again.

If it's a healer and I'm feeling especially vindictive I'll hold off on the kick until right before the final boss. >x>;

For the underlined part, honestly feel it goes two ways on this. If they wanted not to waste time, they woulda kicked the person spending too much time typing, and not enough time killing.
Keeping a sour apple on the team that long was only increasing the odds someone blew up on them.
So both sides contributed to the final outcome.

[Furious]

The dumbest skill to ever reach a tank. Stealing group enmity wouldve been fine, biut this one isnt even needed anymore since provoke and ultimaumdont require you to level a second job to learn anymore. Ethics or not, the only reason a tank has to have this on their hotbar, is because they cant tank swap properly, or the other tank cant hold hate. If I ever ran into a tank that trolled so obviously with this skill, theyd be kicked so hard, itd stop being a fun prank for them.

Man, I have to remember your character name. Maybe some advent of fate will put us in a group together and I can dine on the image in my head of your rage as I shirk the biggest thing I can find to you on cooldown!

Shirk is a godly ability that allows tanks (all of them) to do significantly more damage to bosses without risk of dps catching them, which will absolutely happen if the tanks don't use enmity combos and/or tank stances. It also happens to make tank swaps incredibly easy while performing that function. It provides an absolute enmity bonus of 56% per set of 2 traded shirks.

I have no idea what you mean by calling it a crutch for speedkilling, since speed is the aim of every group that exists that is trying to kill a difficult boss. Shirk is basically a dps buff for one or both tanks. A crutch implies it makes easier what you can do otherwise; you cannot tank in dps stance using dps rotations without shirk trading unless your dps are poo. What did tanks used to do before shirk? More enmity combos, less damage combos. Of course, everything is relative, and this is only in terms of what they would have otherwise done, rather than what they do now (rip strength tanks).


As for the topic; do what you want. If some dickhead dps is being douchebaggy (see the guy I quoted), warm up that pinky. They mightn't even notice what you did depending on how glued to the dps meter they are!

[Galgarion]

Guys, come on. Don't shirk the dps. Even if they're creeps. Be bigger. Be better. We're the heroes.

addendum*

Unless, obviously, it's really funny. Law of surprise and all.

[Rekin]

The dumbest skill to ever reach a tank. Stealing group enmity wouldve been fine, biut this one isnt even needed anymore since provoke and ultimaumdont require you to level a second job to learn anymore. Ethics or not, the only reason a tank has to have this on their hotbar, is because they cant tank swap properly, or the other tank cant hold hate. If I ever ran into a tank that trolled so obviously with this skill, theyd be kicked so hard, itd stop being a fun prank for them.

Shirk is what I would call a required ability since it allows good tanks to exit tank stance even faster leading to quicker kills. Dumping on it because of a lack of imagination is poor form.

And even if you want to use the argument "Tanks should just tank!" then I have some news for you bucko.

We enjoy using our new skills, especially if they are flashy and let us do more damage and kill things quicker.

If you have a problem with any of those reasons. Then I humbly ask you to never tank and to never comment on tanking if you plan to remain not only ignorant but woefully hateful to those who play the role for doing all they can.

[BorisDaBlade]

I was on the same "Shirk is for terribad tanks" camp. Then a fellow tank in susano ex suggested I try it. After the second tank swap, there was no need for tank stance for aggro. Even against super overzealous rdms and sams. And no need for aggro combos for the rest of the fight.

It's not only a bonus for easy tank swap, it's a dps gain as well since there's no need for the aggro combo after use.

[Poison_Rose]

Doesnt change the fact its a crutch for "speedkilling".

You say "crutch for speedkilling".

I say "incredibly fun".

[Umbeliel]

For the underlined part, honestly feel it goes two ways on this. If they wanted not to waste time, they woulda kicked the person spending too much time typing, and not enough time killing.
Keeping a sour apple on the team that long was only increasing the odds someone blew up on them.
So both sides contributed to the final outcome.

This is a fair point. Does this mean we have our "free game" marker?

The laws of shirk dictate that you can be a dick after:

A. Your attempted vote dismiss has failed.

And

B. Your party is just expecting you to put up with it.

Guys, come on. Don't shirk the dps. Even if they're creeps. Be bigger. Be better. We're the heroes.

addendum*

Unless, obviously, it's really funny. Law of surprise and all.

Maybe add C. It will be hilarious(for you at least) to that lol

[Kabooa]

Guys, come on. Don't shirk the dps. Even if they're creeps. Be bigger. Be better. We're the heroes.

addendum*

Unless, obviously, it's really funny. Law of surprise and all.

My tank and healer friends, man. "Friends."

I get "Rescued" to my detriment so many times.

You would THINK that a game that so closely follows the WoW Formula would realize what a mistake lifegrip was to add to their game.